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Brian and Jacques,

 

I shall get your skins sooner or later for not pitying a poor frog out of his pond so early, who in training session, sneaks on the web (putting his life at stake) to help a poor member at a loss (sorry Shan) and makes a typo (NTHK better than NBTHK)

 

The huge font size "B" is my first step to revenge :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:

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Thanks guys, good useful feedback there.

I am unsure as well, there is a newness to it but not too new. I am leaning towards shinshinto(which is where i think it emanated from) Gimei of course also lerks in the deepest recesses of my mind (and can stay there)

Lets give it its slot at shinsa then and let it lead us wherever it will.

I will keep you posted.

It is good that it is NTHK then Jean.

many thanks

shan

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I am reliably informed that shinsa is Full without exceptions.

I would gather that if you do not hide the goods or try to sneak an item in in the guise of another item then there is not a problem.Open and honest works.The ban is on Junk swords not antiques and they can tell the difference.

If it states on the package (recommended transport would be a sword tube) "Japanese Antique art sword 15th century"or something and a dated testimonial ,i doubt issues will arise.(unless you look like a terrorist of course) I have stuff coming in from abroad and have had no issues so far ( and i know i would as i am quite unlucky).

Another way is to post the item to a known friend.and pick it up when you get here.

However If you don`t have a slot at shinsa then its a mute point as its pay in advance.

Regards

shan

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Thanx for your info, if its full its full, anyway i first have to het the blade polished anyway.

 

It was just the customs stuff i am worried about.

 

I do carry replica blades through customs for re-enactment regularly

and never had any trouble doing so.

 

the original blade has a museum attestation but its in Dutch, and well since i think its gimei anyway ill first have a proper togishi have a look at it.

 

KM

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

Results are in.

 

Minamoto Masakuni, Shinteisho (60 points), Kaei (1850). This one myself and Paul B thought was earlier, Ah well you live and learn.

 

Mumei Wak,Kanteisho (70 points), Atribution of den Kashu Ietsugu, Tenbun 1540.

 

Mumei Wak, Kanteisho (73 points), Atribution of den Noshu Jumyo, Kanbun 1650.

 

Tanto signed Izumi no Kami and Hachi gasti hi, Pinked but Estimated Uda School, Etchu province, 1570's

 

Met lots of friendly people and had an excellent but long day.

 

Regards

 

Mark C

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Results in!

 

shinsaswords.jpg

 

 

Katana: Den Tango no Kami Kanemichi, 1755 ( 70 points )

 

Pretty much along the lines of what I was expecting there, happy that it didn't come back as gendaito lol.

 

Wakizashi: Den Echizen Shimosaka, 1624 ( 70 points )

 

Quite a suprise on this one, age was not far off what I thought but didn't see it being Shimosaka. Pleased with the result though because I do like Shimosaka swords.

 

So all in all a good day for me, two o suriage and neither Bungo lol

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I had 3 passes and 1 fail. The fail was determined to be a mumei gendaito. If anyone wants to buy it let me know :lol:

 

My passes:

 

1. mumei Wakizashi den Shimada Sukemune 1610 (70 points)

2. signed Katana Fujiwara Muneyuki (Bungo) 1600 (70 points)

3. mumei Katana den Aizu Michitoki 1863 (70 points)

 

Can't complain at my results really.

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Some others unfourtunately had shocks of a different kind :(

 

 

Care to be a little more specific Mark?

to what are you refering?

I had 3 entered in (By proxy) (many thanks for that Paul ) and i will bet.... knowing my luck as of late.... there are big fat 3 PINK slips waiting to be forwarded to me along with some scrap tamahagane.

 

just wondered what the shocks were?

regards

Shan

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Hi Shan,

 

Nothing specific apart from my own as mentioned above, I just see a few pink slips coming out of envelopes whilst I was waiting around socialising and drinking large amounts of coffee as my slots were early and late on the saturday.

 

Hope the news is good, when you receive it.

 

Regards

 

Mark

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just wondered what the shocks were?

 

WW2 gendaito failing as oil tempered, swords that look old failing as gendaito copies. Happens at every shinsa.

 

Personally I was very satsified with my results and look forward to the next UK shinsa. It was a great learning experience and the shinsa was well organised and efficiently run.

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Hi All,

well my results are now available and were

 

1.A suguba Wakazashi passed 90 points Takada, Saneyuki ,Kansu period (1770) (Held back by a small 2mm carbon pocket i bet).

 

2.The Yari passed Genroku (1688) Yamato, Monju Yoshitada 70 points.

 

3. My Kanetsune Tanto failed as gimei but attributed to Echizen seki school 1880 ,the Tanto only failed because of the false signature Paul told me and echizen Seki is a good call ......but the Kanetsune does surprize me a little and i still ask why gimei so late a blade? I also note that there were Echizen ju Kanetsune working and signing,but there you go, shinsa can open up more questions than give answers sometimes i guess. (answers can be posted)

 

So all in all not a bad result i think although i have yet to find out exactly wat all this means.

I will be ready for the next shinsa with carfully selected items not stuff dug out at the last minute.

Regards

Shan

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Shan,

I think there is a typo in post it should read 70 points not 90.

at 90 points your wak would be close to Juyo status and sorry to say that isnt the case.

hope my mail to you didnt mislead you.

Also you are right there is an Echizen Kanetsune but the signature on your blade is not his, therefore gimei.

regards

Paul

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at 90 points your wak would be close to Juyo status

 

Paul,

 

It is very interesting when you say that. in fact, referring more or less to Dr Stein website, 90 points at NTHK would be Juyo NBTHK level.

 

We see seldom Yushu kanteied blades in Europe.

 

An alternative :

 

Either NTHK is much more selective (higher standards) in its appreciation than NBTHK

 

or,

 

(Here we go again) NBTHK is preferred because its certificates meaning more money.

 

 

What I would like to have (a dream) is a panel of Juyo swords sent to shinsa at the NTHK and the level (in points) they will obtained. Kind of benchmark.

 

When I say this, i am talking about O suriage blades kanteied to a school rather than a smith (Enju, Naoe Shizu ...) :) :)

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Hi Jean,

By far the most common score last weekend was 70 points. there were some at 60 and some a little above.

My feel is that if a blade is clean with attributes visible and it is possible to make a good attribution 70 is what you can expect. Anything above that suggests it is above the norm.

regarding higher attribution I would suspect they would not make an 80 point plus at an overseas shinsa, althought 1 got close the last time (that is my opinion only) it is a little like the NBTHK not passing a sword as Juyo at their normally monthly panel, it needs to be submitted to a Juyo panel and for the judges to spend more time on it.

If the judges saw something with greater potential I thnk they would discuss the best way to achieve this with the owner.

As I said they were extremely helpful in explaining what they were doing and how they reached their conclusions.

regards

Paul

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Thank you Guido for the great article by mr Benson!!

 

Question, how long do these shinsa masters take on average to merit a blade?

Do they use books during shinsa? is all their knowledge in their heads? and for instance when there are three smiths with the same name from different eras, using the same kanji, how can they gimei a blade? I mean, its not that you bring in a blade with a note saying this could be this smith, or is it?

Have you ever witnessed a row between them when they disagreed on a blade ?

 

KM

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do yet get a bonus for the number of questions in one email??

I will try and answer from what I have seen so far.

1. Judges usually spend between 5 and 10 minutes on a blade there are 3 or 4 of them and that equates to about 20 mins of examination.

2. Yes they have and do use books.

3. No they dont always agree with each other and thats why some blades take longer to look at.

4. the age and school of a blade are determined by shape, hada and hamon the mei is then examined and should confirm what the blade is telling them. therefore if the workstyle is of the shodai but the mei in the style of a later generation it is wrong.

we had at least one example yesterday of a Hizen balde which everyone agreed was a later generation Tadayoshi and was signed hizen (no) Kuni Tadayoshi. However the mei did not match any of the later styles and it was concluded that it was added later not by the smith who made it. This is not an attribution but an attempt to add value by putting a name on the blade. result was that it was failed. but the explaination given on the pink paper

 

For a sword to pass the workmanship and the style of mei must match up and they have many published examples to compare against.

As said before one of the real learning pluses was that when someone queried the result given (happenned on about 7 out of 210 swords seen) the judges spent time explaining and showing illustrated examples that helped them reach their conclusions.

interestingly most of the debate seemed to be around later gendaito/showa-to blades rather than earlier work but that may be just the relative quantity of these blades on show.

hope this helps answer some of your questions

regards

Paulb

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Hi All,

Sorry for the typo it was 70 points then (not 90) and 1790 (not 1770) for the wakizashi (bugger!!)

Re the Kanetsune Tanto signature,if it was snowing outside and he was having a bath whilst having Hiccups,at the time and had slightly soapy hands and someone had just poured cold water into the tub,then who is to say that its not his mei :lol:

Yes OK it was gimei (Bum) Its still nice and was attributed to a good school I think.

I guess this is still way better than a :

"shan, The good news is they all passed shinsa and got high 80+ points,there masterpieces,........the Bad news is some bugger nicked them all last night!!!!"

Many thanks to all involved (Especially Paul)for this excellent shinsa and now .....who wants to sell what?????

regards

Shan

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hi,

yes this was my first shinsa (will post results later) and i had a very enjoyable experience ,the shinsa team were exellent very friendly and helpful ,also met alot of very interesting people.i think the shinsa team should give themselves a large pat on the back(and possibly a large gin and tonic )...well done .

 

Anthony

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