2 Ana on Nakago

[Blazeaglory]

I cant remember where I heard it but when there are two Ana on a Nakago (spaced further and looking the same), not just a separate Ana for the Shirasaya or a newly made koshirae. Do I recall correctly that it was for a "war time" koshirae?

 

Is there any truth to that?

[Ken-Hawaii]

Almost impossible to answer generically. Some blades had a second ana to serve as a brace of the blade in the tsuka. But I think that most additional ana were added due to shortening (machi-okuri, or more).

[SAS]

Shinobi ana were also done on some Koto swords.

[Shamsy]

Dwain, I think you are referring to the Rinji Seishiki Gunto, also known commonly and incorrectly as the Type 44 or Type 0.

[mas4t0]

I know that in Battodo, they recommend two mekugi, one of brass, for safety reasons. I'm not sure if there is any historical president for the use of brass, but it does seem like a reasonable thing to do as an extra level of security.

 

An extra piece of bamboo isn't going to make much difference overall, unless the sword is so poorly maintained that one of them drops out.

 

Of course, additional mekugi ana could exist in the nakago for a number of reasons, and the nakago ana alone do not imply that a blade was mounted in this way.

[lonely panet]

This was a trait of a highly regarded sue Bizen sukesada Smith with katate uchi

[Jacques D.]

Ninja secret...

[lonely panet]

from what i read in the book THE Japanese SWORD buy sato,

in which the above sword is shown, it became a trait to have 2 mekugi, for needed in the heat of battle with the new katate uchi.

 

a extra safety measure it may be called

[Blazeaglory]

Interesting, thanks for the answers

 

Also, I've read or heard, I cant remember, that prior to bamboo pegs the blade was was held in by the friction of the Nakago alone? Is that true?

 

It would seem that with one giant swing, the sword would fly out like a bolt

[Jacques D.]

I've yet to see a Koto, Shinto or Shinshinto tsuka with 2 mekugi ana....

[Rivkin]

I've yet to see a Koto, Shinto or Shinshinto tsuka with 2 mekugi ana....

 

I own one (Momoyama) and owned a few.

 

Kirill R.

[Rivkin]

Interesting, thanks for the answers

 

Also, I've read or heard, I cant remember, that prior to bamboo pegs the blade was was held in by the friction of the Nakago alone? Is that true?

 

It would seem that with one giant swing, the sword would fly out like a bolt

 

No, that works in some countries with daggers. But continental chokuto had either iron or copper, not wood mekugi and went from one to two relatively early as well.

 

Kirill R.

[mas4t0]

I own one (Momoyama) and owned a few.

 

Kirill R.

Any chance you could post a picture of the one you have?

[Rivkin]

Any chance you could post a picture of the one you have?

 

Sure, on Sunday. I will even boost the suspension - the ana are wide on one side and narrow on the other, and there are still two conical wood mekugi inserted in them.

 

Kirill R.

[jeremy]

I have a shinshinto with 2 mekugi ana . Mumei ubu attributed to chikuzen munetsugu.

[rebcannonshooter]

 

 

Here's a Koto Bizen, "KiyoMitsu" with a 1550 date. The bottom two ana are originals, the top one is WW2 time period to re-mount into shin gunto.

 

 

       Tom M.

[Blazeaglory]

I've yet to see a Koto, Shinto or Shinshinto tsuka with 2 mekugi ana....

I can't say I've seen an actual Tsuka other than the above Gunto and others or maybe a koto Tsuka/koshirae in a book but honestly I can't say that I have seen many (or any) either.

 

Ive seen quite a few "double ana" on Nakago but the kind I'm thinking of are different than the typical gunto or "added at a later time" for new koshirae or shirasaya.

 

I don't know why I've got this in my head or where I even read/heard it but for some reason I've got the notion that 2 ana on Nakago (usually Koto and early Edo) were for war time use.

 

Anyways, here's an example I have. The ana look to be chiseled and the blade appears O suriage.

[Nobody]

This picture shows a typical shinobi-ana on a shinshinto - Yokoyama Sukekane.

 

[Blazeaglory]

This picture shows a typical shinobi-ana on a shinshinto - Yokoyama Sukekane.

Now that looks really awesome!

[Blazeaglory]

koto blade1.jpg

 

 

Here's a Koto Bizen, "KiyoMitsu" with a 1550 date. The bottom two ana are originals, the top one is WW2 time period to re-mount into shin gunto.

 

 

Tom M.

Is that Ubu or suriage? If original, maybe 2 ana were a preference of the Samurai? More often during war than not?

 

Did Samurai have war time Koshirae vs. Peace time Koshirae? I know there were strict procedures on how to hold and transfer a Nihonto during war time vs. peace. Maybe the adding of a second Ana was more than functional? Could it also be symbolic or ritualistic?

 

I'm just running my mouth here so don't take anything I'm saying as factual. I'm only thinking out loud for the sake of a debate.

[Jacques D.]

Hey Guys, i said TSUKA not nakago. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Koshirae is not really my strong point but as I do happen to own a good selection of books, here are two original koshirae (and their blades) from Uchigatana Koshirae book.

 

Number 63 (that gets turned sideways) - Sword made by Kiyomitsu in 1514, koshirae can be dated somewhere around Kanbun - Genroku (1661 - 1704)

 

Number 48 - This is the first and original one (second similar one to this featured in book was copied for Heshigiri Hasebe in early 1800's) - Sword made by Sukesada in 1524, koshirae can be dated to be made between 1598 to 1604.

[Blazeaglory]

Koshirae is not really my strong point but as I do happen to own a good selection of books, here are two original koshirae (and their blades) from Uchigatana Koshirae book.

 

Number 63 (that gets turned sideways) - Sword made by Kiyomitsu in 1514, koshirae can be dated somewhere around Kanbun - Genroku (1661 - 1704)

 

Number 48 - This is the first and original one (second similar one to this featured in book was copied for Heshigiri Hasebe in early 1800's) - Sword made by Sukesada in 1524, koshirae can be dated to be made between 1598 to 1604.

Very nice. I'm amazed that it's so old and in good shape. They appear to have 2 holes

 

Thanks for sharing that!

 

Also, in my Tsuka maki book, I noticed they have a "battle wrap". My friends Gunto Tsuka is wrapped the same way. It involves wrapping without knots

[Stephen]

Never say never in Nihonto!

[Ray Singer]

I don't have a photo of the reverse side of the tsuka on-hand, but this koshirae in my collection has two mekugi-ana in the tsuka.

 

[Rivkin]

There are two mekugi coming as a set. Could it be some weird reuse of a tsuka? I don't have the blade unfortunately, so no proof, but I don't think so.

 

Kirill R.

[Tom Darling]

Kirill, it appears to have three mekugi-ana?

 

 

Tom D.

[Rivkin]

Yes, it is, but I've got only two mekugi coming with it.

 

Kirill R.

[Rivkin]

And while we are at it.... Continental chokuto do tend to have one ana and much later they go to two... But sometimes you get this uncommon suriage thing, and even though likely only one probably functional at any given time, it is kind of fun.

 

Kirill R.

[Jacques D.]

I've learnt something today, now i wonder why, if a second ana has a real practical purpose, they are so uncommon