Collecting Gaiso (koshirae) only?

[Bugyotsuji]

How do the members feel about displaying really special koshirae with internal tsunagi (i.e. no blade)?

 

I ask because of something I witnessed yesterday. An acquaintance bought a really nice wakizashi (or sun-nobi tanto?) by Bizen Osafune Kagemitsu or Kanemitsu I think. The whole package was stunning. He pulled out the blade and handed it back. "Keep your blade and registration paperwork", he said, "so now, how much do you want for the gaiso alone?" People standing around were surprised that he didn't want the blade, which the seller had assured him was a good one. He didn't answer. Naturally the price being sought dropped considerably.

 

Later I had a chance to ask him. "This koshirae I wish to display in my front hall", he said. "I do not want the hassle of a real blade inside, in case someone does something unpredictable." He added that he has already ordered a tsunagi to be made for it, and a special wooden stand. (Must have been on the phone quick!)    

[Bugyotsuji]

Perhaps I should declare my interest and say that I have two koshirae which have no inner blade. One is a short rather fancy red lacquerwork wakizashi pushed into the sash of my display armour, and the other, with finely detailed metalwork will probably lie on a tanto stand. For some reason I feel no pressure to find blades for these.

[ChrisW]

If its just for display only and just meant for the display presence, then I don't see the problem. I have a rather fine Edo-era Koshirae set sitting in a case of mine and while I've tried to find a blade that fits it, I am fine with it just being a display piece (which admittedly most blades are these days anyways).

[Tigerinbamboo]

There are a lot of koshirae for sale on Yahoo Japan without blades. I always wonder what happened to the blade.

[Bugyotsuji]

A lot of blades can be found, conversely, kept in shirasaya.

[BIG]

Piers, please share your two koshirae..

 

Best

[Greg F]

I for one would love to see any fine koshirae members are happy to share.

Good topic Piers.

 

Greg

[paulb]

I have seen several really beautful Koshirae for sale on various websites for huge sums of money, some of which I would love to own. So yes there certainly appears to be a strong market for them.

For very many years I focussed almost totally on blades which were/are all stored in shirasaya. I regarded koshirae as incidental. A couple of years ago when unable to consider buyng a sword I starting looking at putting koshirae together for the blades I had. Later still I displayed them on sword stands in the "sword Room". 

I can undersantd people wanting to collect koshirae, especially some of the earlier ones that appear, I am less comfortable with seperating a sword from it's koshirae assuming it has at some point been custom built for the blade.

[Gakusee]

I actually disapprove of people splitting the blades from their koshirae. I know koshirae were interchangeable and blades often had different koshirae for different purposes such as a palace visit or military campaign, but today we have a situation of top blades having been separated from their top koshirae by people seeking profit. So the koshirae circulate alone and get papered Juyo etc and the blades are in their own solitary path also circulating and progressing individually. Sad.

 

Piers above has just demonstrated it: clearly a top blade (Osafune Kagemitsu) housed in exquisite koshirae. It was probably a former Daimyo possession as those were the people who could afford/value/appreciate a top blade and would commission the appertaining lavish or elegant koshirae. Merchants sometimes went for ostentatious tosogu luxury but rarely were blades inside as precious as Kagemitsu or Kanemitsu as merchants did not care or need a superior blade.

 

We have a problem in the market that sword collectors most often would not value sufficiently or pay up for the proper decent koshirae that a blade is in. And the dealer, in pursuit of profit, would separate them. That happens with owners too. I bought a Muramasa sword from a member here who separated the blade from its koshirae. It is just not right as that further rips asunder history.

 

And then - what happens to us, sword collectors? We end up with nice-ish blades in their simple shirasaya and then try to commission koshirae, or put daisho together, or find the matching tsuba and so on and so forth. Having lost history, value, money all along. Those who have commissioned koshirae for bare blades would know that they would never recover their cost when they decide to sell on these newly-clad blades.

[Bugyotsuji]

All good points and very well put, Michael. Not that this wealthy guy needs or wants anyone to make an excuse for him, but I sense that he feels rich enough to have been a Shogun or Daimyo back in the day, or that he is the embodiment of one today, and whatever he decides is by default the way forward. I certainly would not have separated the two parts, but I am pretty certain I would not have had the power to stop him, (other than stepping forward and offering a higher price which yes, I did consider) and if I had tried to stop him verbally or physically that would have been the end of our association. The dealer was left with a bare blade, having to consider the expense of a new shirasaya for it.

 

There is too much swapping in and out by dealers in search of a profit, such as separations of armour sets, this is true, but the Japanese have always loved taking things apart and reassembling them. Whenever we Westerners do this, however, whatever we come up with may often seem somehow less authentically 'Japanese'.

[Austus]

I agree with everything said here; and hate to see a separation. But there's a huge resposibility in owning a Nihonto; and not everyone is willing or able to do the job. Plus there might be kids in the house. Hopefully, the blade will go to someone who can take on the care necessary.

 

I recently realized that koshirae is a lot like lingerie.

[b.hennick]

Here is a link to a koshirae of a Hizen Masahiro blade. Both blade and koshirae are papered. Enjoy.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPPiPMhuqYZ1wP0SG7eBzwAfbuaV7GZKQhlsB-Ox5x8xixmGwVB8dGdbSHDsKHAZw?key=QVJUZ3FhSzN2TzVqWklCY3dBaVBfakZNZmtvcFVR

[b.hennick]

Here is a link to a daisho for Hizen Masahiro blades. The koshirae and blades are papered. The koshirae was published in the NTHK Journal.

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipM-YnNYdUwSSfLmxz3zZsnDymWgJAZozczXBz6T

[b.hennick]

Here is a link to a papered koshirae with a dragonfly theme.

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipORz2CmTClFVDEAJKZ1r8HOoHY-0Qm14nA4HKJE?key=CK_p5_ut-Pi6qQE

[Ganko]

Separating them like that seems disrespectful to the blade as well as the koshirae to me.

[Greg F]

Barry I love the Masahiro wakizashi koshirae. The other 2 links dont work for me for some reason.

I like the idea of koshirae staying with blades but when there is money to be made and some sellers are going to split them up. A shame lets not let it stop this thread huh. Keep em coming guys, please.

 

Greg

[Bugyotsuji]

Up against the wall, no room for a Tachi!

[Gakusee]

Excellent, Piers. What does the maedate signify? Are these prayer slips that the Japanese tie to branches?

[16k]

Excellent, Piers. What does the maedate signify? Are these prayer slips that the Japanese tie to branches?

Crest on a kabuto (I think!)

[Pete Klein]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gohei

[Bugyotsuji]

Update. Good news!
The dealer phoned and insisted that he could not keep the Kagemitsu blade separately, (even with its nice utsuri). He would send it for cost price. My friend insisted on adding ¥5,000 for his trouble. The blade has already arrived at its new home to join its missing 'lingerie', or Marilyn Monroe has just joined her famous dress.

[Gakusee]

Excellent news. Rare for a dealer to do that. 

[Gakusee]

And frankly, your friend was very cheap, adding just $50 to a Kagemitsu bought at cost (if that’s THE Osafune Kagemitsu that is) 

[Bugyotsuji]

Michael, it is. But by accepting the blade, he has saved the dealer the time and expense of having a new shirasaya made for it. And yes, it purports to be the Osafune Kagemitsu and not the Kaga Kagemitsu, although it is not papered. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Update 2

 

The word on the street is that this blade was most probably unpapered for a reason, which would explain both the price and the cheap tip!

"How likely is that to be a real Kagemitsu, unpapered, at that price?" asked the little voice.

 

This now tells me that the person who bought the koshirae and summarily rejected the blade had already thought that far down the road. He did not want to be seen with a suspect Kagemitsu. Far better then, to order a brand, spanking new tsunagi. It has taken me several days to catch up with his lightning-quick thought processes. Apologies to all and sundry.

 

"We get there in the end!" (saying, an unknown pilgrim)

[BIG]

Laotse, I believe..

 

Best

[PietroParis]

Interesting story! Do you think the buyer made up an excuse because directly questioning the blade might have embarrassed the seller?

[Bugyotsuji]

Yes, Pietro.

[Bugyotsuji]

And after the new tsunagi and shirasaya, here are the family back together. The 'Kagemitsu' tanto blade is togiberi so it looks long and thin, but the jigane is full of activity and we can see a sort of notare utsuri above the hamon. The nakago looks too well rubbed, too smooth to my eye, but a case could be made that the rust has been removed to reveal the Mei... Safer to imagine it is Gimei, I reckon, but the possibility of Shoshin is a nice tickle for the owner.

 

Photo 1

[Gakusee]

Thanks, Piers. That looks very interesting indeed. As does the chest!

It will be impolite to request to see the mei of the tanto, unless offered by the owner. But if you are good friends and have discussed the possibility of it being gimei and he agrees to you taking a shot, then .....