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Type 95 NCO Swords with Hamon?

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16k Grand Master

16k

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Bruce when you look on a cooper handled NCO you will see that this is not like the point 9. description. I think you must judge every blade. 

I see so many different looking NCO blades. I will show a cooper handle balde and a last stage tpye95 NCO.

 

attachicon.gifblades_edge_nco.jpg

 

Bruce, John, Neil, Shamsy please look on your copper nco and search for the temper line. I see under a good light a "real" temper (I'm not sure if that could be done with etching). On the last stage typ 95 i also see a temper and a black shadow above this line.

 

Damn, I’d like to get my hand onto one of those copper handles!

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16k Grand Master

16k

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I was looking at my regular 2nd pattern NCO sword and for a moment, thought I saw something, but I think it has more to do with a shadow created by the niku of the blade near the ha that reflects the light differently.

 

Still, Chris’ copper handle clearly shows a Hamon, so I wonder if that could have been an extra option offered for the early swords.

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Polished Iijima:

Hamon of this sword is Sugu-ba

Jihada is Ko-Itame-Hada

You are correct, Chris. Some NCO have hamon.

Steve, you're blowing my mind!!! Someone paid to have a Type 95 blade polished?!

 

I had always assumed they had hardened the cutting edge. Who would make a sword without a hardened edge, right? But this clearly shows it! Wow!

 

Now on that other one, is it a zohei-to? And WHAT are those holes on the mune? and what is that copper on the blade with a kanji????

 

post-3487-0-86322400-1575504644_thumb.jpg

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Shamsy Mentor

Shamsy

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The holes and copper bits, Bruce, are just the tips of the stand caught in the photo. They look terrible though, like snipped bits of blade.

 

I don't think it's an amazing polish either mate, probably an apprentice in Japan or maybe an experienced but untrained Japanese dealer. It is really nice to see what a 95 may look like though.

 

I can't quite figure it out from what you've written, but I'll just add that both pictures I posted are the same sword. It's a complete, matched Iijima in reasonable condition.

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Alex Genikov Rookie

Alex Genikov

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Thank you Dave a wealth of info!

By the way a modern Japanese swordsmiths extensively using machines nowadays.

Witnessed myself at ones famous swordsmith workshop near Tokyo, amazing.

And this live as to what you pointed early- a military swords been made during the war to a purpose,

not for the future collectors or admirers so was the medieval swords of the past as well.

I am pity much sure, if would given a chance, medieval samurai would give a lot for a good WWII sword!

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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I think we can now write that the information Type95 had no hamon, is false.

They had one. ????

I think many collectors of NCO swords will be happy and they look now deeper on their blades.

@Bruce i see the hamon on your blade too.

 

there is a lot of oil on it so i must take 3 filters to bring it out. 

 

now you see it better on your picture.

 

post-3496-0-39342100-1575539015_thumb.jpg

A good one.

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Shamsy Mentor

Shamsy

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You'll find that a lot of the information in the books regarding 95s is a little off the mark. The fact that there is so much more to these swords that isn't recorded anywhere means there's always more for people to learn. We also seem to find new information every time we delve into the subject, is why I enjoy collecting them so much.

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16k Grand Master

16k

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A lot of information about ALL WW2 swords is off the mark!

 

I’m only recently here. Before that, I had absolutely 0 interest in those swords. All I’d read about them made them feel like very inferior items.

 

I’ve loved so much about them in so little time since I’m here that my love for keeps increasing and I consider them as important as their revered ancestors. I can never thank enough all the great people of this forum for opening my eyes and my mind on such a neglected and derided part of sword history. You, gentlemen have my respect!

 

As for my NCO, I did as Neil suggested and put it under LED light, and yes, it’s faint but it’s there!

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16k Grand Master

16k

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Yes, that’s why I said the age took on a new light under the information of this thread.

 

However, Ohmura says a little further down that from pattern 2 onward (at least that’s what I think I understand from the poor translation!) that the blades were oil tempered and without Hamon (so through tempered). So I guess that unless he is wrong, my seeing the shadow of a Hamon is probably wishful thinking.

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  • 7 months later...
Dave R Grand Master

Dave R

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 Tempering is a process that follows hardening. "Tempering is most often performed on steel that has been heated above its upper critical (A3) temperature and then quickly cooled, in a process called quenching, using methods such as immersing the hot steel in water, oil, or forced-air. The quenched-steel, being placed in or very near its hardest possible state, is then tempered to incrementally decrease the hardness to a point more suitable for the desired application. "

 

Type 95's were an industrial product, so I would not be surprised if they were made using the latest technology of the 1930s/40s. Original Wiki article here. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)

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Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

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Tempering is a process that follows hardening. "Tempering is most often performed on steel that has been heated above its upper critical (A3) temperature and then quickly cooled, in a process called quenching, using methods such as immersing the hot steel in water, oil, or forced-air. The quenched-steel, being placed in or very near its hardest possible state, is then tempered to incrementally decrease the hardness to a point more suitable for the desired application. "

 

Type 95's were an industrial product, so I would not be surprised if they were made using the latest technology of the 1930s/40s. Original Wiki article here. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)

Dang, you guys keep trying to make me learn stuff!

 

So, the 95 blade is as hard as it can get, then tempered (by air) to increase flexability while retaining edge hardness, right? But likely no hamon, since no use of clay in the tempering.

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