Deciphering my grandfather's tanto

[Mushin]

Greetings all,

 

Here's a tanto that belonged to my grandfather and was left to me. I know very little about it. I just got it out of storage while on a trip to New York and am trying to translate the mei. Unfortunately, I'm not doing very well. I think one side says "a Lucky Day in July" and the mei is Katsu (???) something. I just can't figure out the other characters. Can any body help?

 

I posted the pictures here.

 

http://s476.photobucket.com/albums/rr130/Mushin_photos/?action=view&current=IMG_0371.jpg

http://s476.photobucket.com/albums/rr130/Mushin_photos/?action=view&current=IMG_0368.jpg

 

It's the first time I have used Photobucket and this camera so I got my fingers crossed that it works. I tried to post the pix here but the files were too big. All tips on the translation and the joys of technology are greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[James]

Side 1: Fujiwara Nobunaga

Side 2: Shichi Gatsu Hi

 

Any more photos of the blade to share?

[Mushin]

Thanks James. I am trying to take pictures of the blade itself but I can't get them to come out right. I keep getting the reflection of camera in the polish and can't get the angle to bring out the hamon and ji-hada. Is there a secret to snapping pictures of swords? I would love to know how they get those long detailed shots on AOI Art. I will try to post some of the better of the bad pix up later today.

 

Anyway, back on topic, does "shichi gatsu hi", mean a lucky day in July?

 

Thanks

[James]

I believe Aoi and some other dealers use a long scanner to get those images.

 

'Shichi Gatsu Hi' just means 'A day in July' - nothing lucky about that particular day I guess.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

'Shichi Gatsu Hi' just means 'A day in July'

 

Sichi gatsu just means "a day in the seventh month"

[Mushin]

Hey Jacques,

 

Any of your books reference this smith? Wonder what year that day in the seventh month was? I think the tanto is shinshinto but could be wrong. Still working on those pix.

[James]

Ah yes, you refer to the intercalary months and the differences due to lunar/western calendar. I read a nice post on Swordforum International about that.

Think it was Carlo...

[Jean]

It seems an interesting post, James

Could any NMB member, by chance, provide the link to this post in SFI, as I know a lot of you are on different Forii?

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Hi Jean.

 

Can't remember the thread as it wasn't exactly about dates, but here you'll find a

link to a page for beginners that might be helpful to others forumite to get accustomed with

the matter :

 

http://www.ndl.go.jp/koyomi/e/unriddling/01_index.html

 

There is also a program that I managed to have published on the net with a friend fo mine

of a german university, but the fun is to calculate dates (*exactly*) the old way, by hand.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

 

Hey Jacques,

 

Any of your books reference this smith? Wonder what year that day in the seventh month was? I think the tanto is shinshinto but could be wrong. Still working on those pix.

 

 

Yes i've some Nobunaga referenced (Kaga, Yamato) but none of them matches yours.

 

IMHO, the mei on your blade was engraved by two different persons and looks like "funny mei"

Date also without nengo is a nonsense.

[Mushin]

IMHO, the mei on your blade was engraved by two different persons and looks like "funny mei"

Funny mei? Is that the same as Gimei? If so why use the name of a smith that is completely unknown?

Curious.

[Jacques D.]

Hi

 

IMHO, the mei on your blade was engraved by two different persons and looks like "funny mei"

Funny mei? Is that the same as Gimei? If so why use the name of a smith that is completely unknown?

Curious.

 

Yes it is the same as gimei. Kashu (Kaga) Nobunaga is not unknown, he was even a good swordsmith, rated josaku.

[Mushin]

Bummer!

[Brian]

Bobby,

Gimei (if it is indeed gimei) isn't a train smash. Many of us have very nice blades that are gimei, and there are thousands out there. Frankly, unless it is a top quality blade that you were going to send to shinsa, I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy the blade, not the signature.

Sometimes gimei blades are even better than the name on them. It is just something that was done often, and too many people put too much importance to the signature.

If you aren't going to get it polished and papered, just enjoy it as is.

 

Brian

[Mushin]

Sage words. Thanks Brian. Still working on those pix!

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

A comment by Tsujimoto Tadao about the date.

 

Why Ni-gatsu and hachi-gatsu?

 

When a sword is dated, it seems almost like a rule to inscribe Ni-gatsu or Hachi-gatsu (2nd or 8th month) on the reverse side of the blade.

These months actually represent the old lunar calendar and not the coldest or the hostest month of year represented by the modern solar calendar and applicable to the temperate zone in the northern hemisphere. Thus, these two months used to be about four week later than than the time of year set by the current calendar and fell in the best part of year in terms of climat when the atmospheric temperature was quite stable. These month used to be called Chu-shun and Chu-shu meaning mid-spring and mid-autumn for celebration.

In addition to the above scientific background probably lying behind the customary practice related to the peculiar date inscriptions, there is another possibility explaining why such a practice came into existence. As shown in the formation of the letters representing the two numerals Ni (二=2) and Hachi (八=, the two simple strokes are placed so as to form shapes that can be cut into even or exact halves in the middle, even vertically or tranversely. It is likely that such a nature of these letters was associated with the most desirable quality that a sword should have, being able to cut efficiently, and establish as a magical formula which should be incorporated in the mei inscription.

It was not until the Muromachi period that Ni-gatsu and Hachi-gatsu became the exclusive months from which all swords began to date, if they were dated. Considering the fact that it happened to be time in Japan's history that the entire land divided into numerous regions governed by local power was dashing into a state of war, it was only natural that warlord and warriors sought a truly efficient cutting function in the sword. The magical and historical background seems to better explain the dating practice than th scientific approach.

[Mark C]

Hi Jacques,

 

Very interesting read thanks.

 

I to am wondering about the no Nengo part as I have also a Tanto with just "hachi gatsu" on one side and just "Izumi no Kami" on the other.

 

I will be putting this in for the UK shinsa soon and will post the outcome.

 

Again, thanks for the info.

 

Regards

 

Mark