Help Needed Identifying Kyu Gunto Sword

[Rollingthunder]

Help needed identifying a kyu gunto sword. It belongs to a friend who's had it many years. I've looked at hundreds of kyu gunto sword pictures and have not seen one that matches. It appears that the tsuka was wrapped with samegawa. I hope the pictures I'm posting can shed some light. Thanks.

[ROKUJURO]

Rolling Thunder,

please sign all posts with your first name plus an initial so that we may address you properly.

The photos are foggy, blurry or upside-down. In my opinion they do not allow a safe assessment of what you have there. It could well be a genuine sword, but I cannot exclude the possibility that the blade is a copy.  

[PNSSHOGUN]

I think this is a colonial or police variant of the Kyu Gunto.

[Rollingthunder]

   The photos are foggy, blurry or upside-down. In my opinion they do not allow a safe assessment of what you have there.

 

Hello Jean,

 

If you click on one picture, it will go to gallery form, in which the pictures are greatly magnified, and you can scroll around to see every portion of the picture. If you look at the magnified images, you'll see they were taken a from a certain perspective for a reason; there's a number 26 stamped in the underside of the tsuba/hand protector, and on the nakago. Also, there are figures/writing stamped on the habaki. Yes, some of the pictures are not the best, but that being said, thanks for your input and I hope that others that read this will be able to view the pictures in the way it was intended, helping to create a more definitive response.

[Bruce Pennington]

Carlos,

Dawson lists this as version 4 of "patrolman and sergeant's sword" under his chapter on Police swords.

 

Yours is slightly different from his example, but there was a vast amount of variants during those years of early sword production.

 

Is that a flower, or crest on the end of the handle? If so, that often tells a lot.

 

[Rollingthunder]

Thanks for the info Bruce. The blade retaining nut on the end of the handle is flower shaped, like the one on the handle on the left side picture, but the handle matches the one on the right side picture. Any significance to the number 26, stamped on both the nakago and handle, or the writing on the habaki? Since I don't have Dawson's book, what era would this sword be? Is it considered kyu gunto?

[Bruce Pennington]

Carlos, I'd really like to see a picture of the blossom on the endcap. Likely it is the 5 petal version, which is the police, but I'd like seeing it, if possible.

 

Dating is near impossible with these. They came out as early as 1886, and there was a uniform revision at 1906, but I think most of these we see were made in the 1920's and '30's. Once the shingunto's came out, I doubt they were still making these anymore, but they were still carried throughout the full length of the war. They were the sword of the era from the Japanese-Russo and early Japanese-Sino wars.

[Rollingthunder]

Hello Bruce,

 My friend who owns the swords, lives far from me, still has a landline phone, does not have a cell phone OR computer. Truly OLD school! So for now the best I could do was call and ask him to check on the end cap. It is indeed a five petal design flower. Next time I'm in his area, I'll stop by and take a picture. By the way, anything on the #26 stamped or the writing on the nakago??

[Bruce Pennington]

Carlos,

 

So, for sure - Police. I've attached a photo from Dawson's book showing this.

 

Sorry, I meant to answer your question about the "26" - on shingunto, the numbers are to keep fitted parts together as the blade goes through polish and re-assembly. I can only surmise that the numbers on kyugunto were used for the same purpose. I've never read, nor heard, a knowledgable discussion on that issue. They have no other meaning that I'm aware of.

 

[Rollingthunder]

Thanks for all your help Bruce. I'm going to try to find a copy of Dawson's book to better educate myself. Cheers!