Which One of These Three

[Prewar70]

I have been looking at the Sue Sa and Yamato Shizu weekly since they were offered for sale.  And now with Darcy's Ichimonji being listed, I find myself looking at that sword as well.  I'm curious about other's opinions on these swords.  Outside of personal preference, does one stand out as being more collectable, a better value, or a better bet of future value?  Personally I'd be happy with any as they all are magnificent and there is much to enjoy.  They are all close in cost if a person had 25k-30k.  And all swords to my amateur eyes seem similar in quality.  I'm interested in your analysis.

 

The Sue Sa:  http://www.nihontocraft.com/Sue_Sa_Katana.html

$26.3k TH  I love the sugata and dimensions.  Beautiful nakago, wide and powerful sword.  Vivid jihada and big kissaki.  It's TH but I'm not sure with the attribution and mumei thing if it qualifies for Juyo submittal or not, that was not clear to me.

 

The Yamato Shizu:  https://www.nihonto.com/2-1-18-2/

$32.5k Juyo  I love the koshirae, let me say that first.  I  also like the sayagaki very much, aged with nice patina.  Beautiful sugata, dark jigane, excellent proportions to my eyes.  A perfect package

 

Yoshioka Ichimonji:  https://yuhindo.com/yoshioka-ichimonji-katana/

$36k Juyo  Incredible hamon and red laquer inscription on the nakago are very pleasing to my eyes.  With the recent discussion regarding separating koshirae, the koshirae with this sword is my personal preference.  Utilitarian with nice age and to me is additive to the overall package.  Flamboyant koshirae isn't interesting to me.  It's a beautiful sword. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think it's a preference thing. For me the Sue-Sa on Nihontocraft wins hands down. I think it is great sword, too bad it's about 10 years too early for me to think of a sword at that level... Like you I've been checking that page probably few times every month. While other swords are nice too, I cannot compare them without bias as I like that Sue-Sa so much.

 

Sa school swords often are wide in profile which I like a lot. This one is very attracting to me and I think it is better in quality than some Sa school swords that have passed Jūyō. Sue-Sa generally means broader attribution to late Nanbokuchō Sa school and they don't attribute to a specific smith. There are plenty of Sue-Sa blades that have passed Jūyō.

[Brian]

They all have a lot going for them. A very difficult choice. Frankly Juyo beats TH and saves you having to submit. But I would find it difficult to recommend a single one, at the risk of dealers accusing us of influencing buyers one way or another.
I will say one thing...I do tend to favour sellers who interact or participate occasionally on the forum though....and one sword does seem to stand out over the other 2 in my opinion. But I have a thing for that school and that photography.
Best of luck with the decision.

[16k]

It’s a difficult choice. I don’t have that kind of money and probably will never have. I dream of getting an Ichimonji one day, so that would be my obvious choice. That said, the Hada on the Sa looks sublime, so it would be between those two, knowing that my heart would probably fall for the Ichimonji in the end.

[Vermithrax16]

3 wonderful swords. Agree with Brian, don't want to seem like favoring one or the other as they are currently on sale now. 

 

The three make an interesting test thought case though; at least to me they can be ranked by the OP criteria in 2 ways fairly easily: more collectible and better shot at future appreciation.

 

But again, to beat my dead horse......personal preference should always be any individual collectors #1 criteria. If you want to invest in something, buy stocks or municipal bonds (in state are tax free usually ). 

[Valric]

It's a little bit apples and orange. Very different swords which capture different periods and makers. 

 

The Sue-Sa with the gimei gakumei has been making the rounds for a while now. It sits in a weird spot of 'almost juyo' and good for Sue Sa. But Sue-Sa is a bit of a cryptic attribution because it can mean anything from direct student to fully diluted end of line. I think here it's quite clear it's late Nambokucho, perhaps bleeding somewhat in Muromachi, worst case. It was tried on auction last year to test the water, but the reserve was too high and it didn't sell, without papers to try and get some gamblers on board. Good one to haggle on as its been sitting in inventory for far too long and after a while people start to get suspicious. 

 

The Yamato Shizu is Yamato sword. Personally I really like the Koshirae, to the point where it makes me like the sword perhaps more than I would otherwise. That said, Juyo 19th is a weak session, where borderline things which wouldn't pass today could pass back then. I don't know enough about Yamato Shizu to say if it applies here. But It's not Naoe Shizu either, which at Juyo 19 I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. It's one of those cases where it can be an interesting deal but because of Session 19 you need to study very carefully the other Juyo Yamato Shizu to see where this one is situated. 

 

The Ichimonji has great activity, shusho, period koshirae etc. It's a great package. The only thing that kills me is that its on the short end but it was so strong on other aspects that it passed Session 61, which is a good session and this tells you something important. At the end all of this is priced in. You can be sure that if it was ten cm more it would close to double the price. It's also fresh on the market which is desirable. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Yamato Shizu sensibilities wise: Juyo, good length, great blade and comes with extremely pleasing Koshirae.

 

Sue Sa gut instinct: Giant Nambokucho sword, but has issues as Chris has well put. I would be happy if I got it for a good offer below the listing price.

 

Ichimonji is another sensible and fantastic sword, you could look at that one for hours a day easily.

[Gakusee]

As others have pointed out:

- you cannot compare a Kamakura grandmaster sword (Ichimonji school) to a Nanbokucho / Muromachi sword. Simply not in the same category skill wise

- secondly, Juyo is Juyo and TH is TH. Now, of course a TH could be a future Juyo but then you need to start the analytical work: how does it compare to others (Sue Sa) in Juyo category already, is it a TH which will get to Juyo (so just a matter of submission) and much much more importantly: since the TH paper was issued in 1987 you can be certain that previous owners have all tried to get Juyo for it in the last 30 years and have failed. That should tell you something already. EDIT: well, it is attributed to Sue so according to the tighter criteria it could not go higher unfortunately due to the period

- so the Sa fails on numerous counts: not Juyo and not getting there. No koshirae. Not in the same league.

- Yamato Shizu is no Shizu (ie not Shizu Kaneuji). I like Shizu Kaneuji but Yamato Shizu just does not do it for me. But it is a good sword, Juyo (but in a weak session when so-so swords passed) but with very good koshirae.

- the Ichimonji activity is incredible and the hada is extremely tight koitame komokume. That should tell you what level of skill and craftsmanship went in there. And comes with used and utilitarian koshirae. So, enough said and quite clear why it is the best of the three. Frankly the price differential between it and the other two is too small for the big gap in quality between it and the other two. Only because of its length of 63cm (respectable for short Japanese samurai) is it so cheap.

[Surfson]

I will have the Ichimonji please....if you PM me, i will send you my address.  

[Gakusee]

Well, the Ichimonji is gone/on hold. Clearly people realised what a good blade and great deal it was.

[Surfson]

Shoot, hoping that James was going to send it to me since I was first to ask for it.  

[Vermithrax16]

I have pictures for the Sue Sa from a friend that held it. Would have been my pick. Brutal, powerful sword.

[Death-Ace]

I must say, I always love the flamboyancy of the Ichimonji school. They are without beautiful blades. However, I love more subdued blades more. There is just something humbling about it. I have a penchant for Aoe and Uda blades. At least more Ko-Aoe and Ko-Uda.

 

Looking at nihonto and yuhindo, the photography tends to bring out the best! That being said, its all up to personal preference and TH/Juyo hold their value well financially, I have seen. The era can be a final indicator of what a blade is going to receive, depending on the school amd sometimes papers can have you scratching your head. Skill wise, you can find better pieces in Kamakura and early Nanbokucho although later smiths of the koto era will see quite a few amazing blades as well!

 

With these blades, I will admit, I admire the blades on nihontocraft and look at the Sa as well. It truly is a powerful and beautoful blade, a great representative of the Nanbokucho era! I secretly do hope I win the lottery and see a sale! Haha!