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Ww2 Gunto Translation Please


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#1 Pegasus

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:02 PM

Gentlemen
I am John McDermott from Inverness in Scotland Uk, I am new to the forum and found my way here via a link in the Japanese sword index. I have a WW2 Gunto and have been trying to get a trying to get a translation of the tang and arsenal stamps. I thought this would be a simple task so I bought a book from Amazon "Kanji fast finder by Laurence Mathews" it was no help to me. Two separate people ( one a Japanese lady) have given two different translations.
1) Takehisa. Seki Nov 1943.
2)Takayama showa Oct 1943 this from the Japanese lady, who said it was old Kanji and couldn't give the "artists name"
3) there seems to be two Nagoya ( double struck) stamps, identified by Dave on here from my test pic, and what may be a Yokosuka ( navy) stamp on the nakago mune which is strange as the fittings are army Gunto.
Well Gents I will attach some pics in the hope that you can help, there is no commercial purpose to this, I would just like to know the makers name and when and where it was made.
Kindest regards John.IMG_2765.JPG IMG_2749.JPG IMG_2756.JPG IMG_2765.JPG IMG_2762.JPG IMG_2762.JPG

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#2 Shugyosha

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:10 PM

Maybe the second kanji is the cursive form of "Masa" - 正. There's an entry for a gunto smith in Markus Sesko's Swordsmiths of Japan:

 

TAKAMASA (高正), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Takamasa” (高正), real name Yasuda Yoshitarō (安田芳太郎), born April 7th 1912, he worked as guntō smith

 

The date is the 10th month in the 18th year of Showa, which is 1943 - so you have that correct. I'm not an expert on military swords so you will have to look to others for the meaning of the stamps. 


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Best regards, John 

Please excuse my spelling mistakes, brevity and ignorance.


#3 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:17 PM

Both the double-struck on the face of the nakago and the one on the mune are "Na" of the Nagoya Arsenal.
The one on the mune is just struck incompletely with the top portion of the Na partially missing.

Mune stamps are more common than people think. Big discussion here with several examples: http://www.militaria...mps#entry279910

#4 Pegasus

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:34 PM

Maybe the second kanji is the cursive form of "Masa" - 正. There's an entry for a gunto smith in Markus Sesko's Swordsmiths of Japan:
 
TAKAMASA (高正), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Takamasa” (高正), real name Yasuda Yoshitarō (安田芳太郎), born April 7th 1912, he worked as guntō smith
 
The date is the 10th month in the 18th year of Showa, which is 1943 - so you have that correct. I'm not an expert on military swords so you will have to look to others for the meaning of the stamps.

Thank you John.

#5 Pegasus

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:41 PM

Both the double-struck on the face of the nakago and the one on the mune are "Na" of the Nagoya Arsenal.
The one on the mune is just struck incompletely with the top portion of the Na partially missing.

Mune stamps are more common than people think. Big discussion here with several examples: http://www.militaria...mps#entry279910

Thank you Bruce, it sure is a big big subject, it's going to take time and a lot o reading to get even a basic understanding of it.
Kind regards John

#6 SteveM

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 04:05 PM

Hello, 

John is correct: Takamasa 高正

 

There was another Takamasa sword posted on this site some time ago. You can find it and compare with yours

http://www.militaria...44-mount-sword/

 

(Ignore the speculation in that thread that the pronunciation might be "Takashi". The pronunciation is most definitely Takamasa.)

 

Also, your Japanese friend is wrong; the kanji used are not old (as in archaic, or out of use). The kanji on your sword are very common and in everyday use in Japan. Its just that the choppy style of writing used on swords takes a bit of getting used to.  


Steve M

#7 Pegasus

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:14 PM

Hello, 
John is correct: Takamasa 高正
 
There was another Takamasa sword posted on this site some time ago. You can find it and compare with yours
http://www.militaria...44-mount-sword/
 
(Ignore the speculation in that thread that the pronunciation might be "Takashi". The pronunciation is most definitely Takamasa.)
 
Also, your Japanese friend is wrong; the kanji used are not old (as in archaic, or out of use). The kanji on your sword are very common and in everyday use in Japan. Its just that the choppy style of writing used on swords takes a bit of getting used to.

Thanks Steve,
I will have to get some more books to help me, l have quite a few already but more history than reference, however l have learned a lot of new stuff in my short time here. I only wish I had known about this board years ago.
Kindest regards John.



#8 DRDave

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:19 PM

(Ignore the speculation in that thread that the pronunciation might be "Takashi". The pronunciation is most definitely Takamasa.)

 

 

 

This one on R. Stein's site may be contributing to the confusion.


Dave Davis


#9 raaay

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:35 AM

Hi john

 

I tried to post this yesterday but for some reason it did not post , the Scottish Token Society has a meeting in Glasgow in March if it is of any interest , PM me for details.


Ray :)


#10 Pegasus

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 02:35 PM

Hi john
 
I tried to post this yesterday but for some reason it did not post , the Scottish Token Society has a meeting in Glasgow in March if it is of any interest , PM me for details.

Thanks Raaay, l will certainly find out about the token society, however going to a meeting would be way out of my depth just now when l am struggling with basics, lots of learning and reading to do to, particularly in Kanji identifying.
Kind regards John.

#11 raaay

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 03:27 PM

Hi John

 

the meetings are very informal , just like minded collectors at this time meeting 3 or 4 times  a year  to help each other out when possible , and the odd scheduled event with talks etc. around the country with other Token societies in the Uk lending there expertise and knowledge .


Ray :)


#12 Mister Gunto

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 01:46 AM

John, if you have any pics of the rest of the blade, and the fittings, we'd love to see them. 


Bradley S. 


#13 Pegasus

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 12:04 AM

John, if you have any pics of the rest of the blade, and the fittings, we'd love to see them.

Hello Bradley,
I will take some pics tomorrow ( it's dark here now) in natural daylight, and post them tomorrow.
I only took the pics of the nakago for translation, and didn't think to take any more. I will take as many as I think of blade and fittings and if there is any particular areas/ shots you would like let me know and I will take them, I'm new to this photographing swords and use an iPad, so any advice you can give is very welcome
Kind Regards John

#14 Pegasus

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 02:47 PM

Hello Bradley,
I will take some pics tomorrow ( it's dark here now) in natural daylight, and post them tomorrow.
I only took the pics of the nakago for translation, and didn't think to take any more. I will take as many as I think of blade and fittings and if there is any particular areas/ shots you would like let me know and I will take them, I'm new to this photographing swords and use an iPad, so any advice you can give is very welcome
Kind Regards John

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#15 Pegasus

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 02:54 PM

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#16 Pegasus

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 03:05 PM

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#17 Pegasus

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 03:07 PM

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#18 Pegasus

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 03:12 PM

Hi Bradley, sorry about the pics being upside down, I'm doing something wrong, if you want any more pics no problem, I will get some help with the orientation of the pics
Kind regards John.




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