Whats Your Opinion About This Waki?

[Ohtar]

i want to know the maker, i recived today and really liked very vell donne forge, muromachi era in my opinion, can you tell me something about the maker? i cant read kanji, and your opinion abouthis price? very apreciated i get it all clear but when i clean a little bit, next day the little inperfections see more dark like oxid old, not dangerous but you can see it more black in the little inperfections, otherwise i like a lot, can i clean this to make it clear again? thanks in advice.

[Ray Singer]

Your sword is signed Fuyuhiro. There were a number of smiths of the Wakasa Fuyuhiro line during Muromachi and a few later.

 

https://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch?order=field_smith_start_era_value&sort=asc&type=All&mei_op=contains&mei=Fuyuhiro

[Ray Singer]

It is important that you not do anything in your own to remove the spots of corrosion you described.

 

http://www.nbthk-ab.org/Etiquette.htm

[PNSSHOGUN]

Agree with Ray, don't do anything yourself. The polish on this sword is already perfectly satisfactory.

[Ohtar]

yes i kwew it, but the problem is the first day that comes i didnt see this spots so dark, and this morning i appreciate like if been darkest during 12 hours it can be posible, i looked a lot yesterday and today but im pretty shure the marks are darker than yesterday, thanks!

[Ohtar]

FUY42 Fuyuhiro Wakasa Kanshō (1460-1466)

冬廣

 

this one seems the maker is the only with the two kanjis alone, may be him?

[Ray Singer]

Eric, are you keeping the blade oiled?

[Ohtar]

yes i recived yesterday so not many time to oxid apeared right? maibe its paranoia, i use oil i read is usefull if you dont find choji oil is for guns, even leather, is red white and green the tube if i remember well

[Ken-Hawaii]

Any oil is better than no oil, Eric, but choji oil is preferred. Of course, choji oil is really plain old mineral oil with a "flavoring" of choji.

 

Rust spots can grow overnight.

[Ray Singer]

Ken beat me to it. It does not take long for spots of corrosion to form, especially if you live in a humid place near the ocean as I do.

[Ohtar]

thanks a lot for the advices! whats your opinion about the quality of the blade? what is a got price to buy it, im a collector but still triying to understand the little details, regards!

[PNSSHOGUN]

If you got it for under $1k USD you did ok I suppose.

[DRDave]

I think I'd value it at more than that.  What are the dimensions?  Also interesting that in one photo, the habaki looks copper, and in another, silver.  Same habaki?

[Ohtar]

sorry the first picture is other of my collection , the other photos are form silver habaki one, the size i think is Blade length:50.7cm/ 19.96 inches

Curvature: 1.3cm / 0.51 inches
Total length: 73.0cm/ 28.74inches
Weight: 747.0g 

[Ohtar]

then i real do a great buy, almost half of it, plus shipping of course

[Marius]

then i real do a great buy, almost half of it, plus shipping of course

 

Eric,

 

It was a good buy, no doubt. You have a real Japanese sword which has't cost you arm and leg

 

Keep in mind though that you have bought this wakizashi on eBay, from a Japanese seller ("katana-boutique"), who sells tons of low end swords. You have to assume that for those $500-600 that you have apparently paid it is gimei (fake signature). Your sword has a signature of a rated smith but no NBTHK papers so it is almost certain it is gimei.

 

This is not tragic as 99% signatures on unpapered nihonto are fake (correction: og unpapered nihonto coming from Japan through eBay and other online sites). But you haven't hit the jackpot and you should be aware of that.

[b.hennick]

Where did the 99% figure come from? Why are so many blades submitted to shinsa if 99% are fake?

[SAS]

Staining on the blade is probably the first stage before real corrosion sets in; I have found that it can be reduced or eliminated by careful use of uchiko on an oiled blade, gently rubbing the area with soft tissue and then the whole blade to keep the finish even. Regular cleaning and avoiding over oiling helps to prevent staining from occurring....I think excess oil in humid areas attracts moisture which causes the corrosion process.

[Valric]

Barry, 

 

It depends on the seller of the unpapered blade. If its from a Japanese dealer, then it's going to be gimei 99%+

 

So many blades are submitted to Shinsa because they come from sources with decent chance of papering, namely the estate of deceased Japanese collector. This is where the vast majority of undocumented treasure blades are found, some of which were hidden for decades and sometimes more. This is also where profits are made for dealers who have access to these estates because the family will sell in bulk at a low price for a quick liquidation and no questions asked.  

 

Estate blades are then triaged into lots. Where its worth it and needed, it goes for polish and restoration. Then to Shinsa. Problematic blades get dispatched to dealers specialized in problematic blades via internal auctions. The top shelf stuff returning big names goes first on the table of top Japanese collectors. What remains gets hyped at DTI or other channels. 

[Marius]

Chris,

 

a short and succinct description of the nihonto market. Thank you

[Ohtar]

for me one of my better blades, is forged almost perfect, the 3 holes one cutting the signature seem 3 diferents mountings so its old and why gonna erase a part on the signature on porpouse making a hole in it? i gont care if its gimei, the forger where ever who donne, donne a really good joob, its very well polish and beauty, i dont know many about the celebrity forgers, but of course so many donne blades many years, so 99% i thing its a little bit exagerated, i have mumey with paipers too, i trust them too

[Marius]

Eric,

 

I understand you are unhappy with the statement that this blade is likely gimei. If so, submit it to shinsa (just joking). If you are happy with it, good, just enjoy it. That is what this hobby is for

 

Before you comment my statement as an exaggeration, please read it: "99% of signed blades AND coming out of Japan AND via eBay or other online sites. That narrows it down, no?

 

Of course you are free to think you have a shoshin blade (one with real signature) but if you want to collect and study nihonto, deluding yourself is probably not the best way to go.

 

BTW, do you now the saying: mumei cannot be mumei? This means that ANY genuine nihonto that has no fatal flaws and is in an acceptable state of polish, will get an NBTHK Hozon. And yes, there are masterworks which are mumei. 

 

Nobody has made the suggestion here to remove the signature, or am I missing something? 

Again, just enjoy it for what it is. 

 

And a word of advice, as you seem to be rather new to this wonderful hobby. You might want to:

 

1. spend the money to buy books

2. study good swords in hand (going to Japan, to shows, et)

3. learn from other collectors (many good and knowledgeable people out there)

 

After a while you will move up in your purchases, if money allows (this is not a cheap hobby). 

 

Oh, and please avoid statements like "forged almost perfect". You are not at the stage yet to say anything more than that you like a sword (neither am I, for that matter, after 15 years of collecting).

 

Please accept it as friendly advice even if it sounds a bit patronising and harsh.

Humility goes a long way when you are a "newbie". 

[kissakai]

Some expert advice and you should take notice

[Ohtar]

i travel to Japan one month in october, i visit many shops, katana museums, etc. I speak some japanesse too, thaks good because not many japanesse speak english there.

I was see hundred of magnificent swords, but i repiting im not disapointing at all im very gladly, seems like you want to make me see that is not a master work and i dont have the luck to find a  treasure nacional japanesse nihonto, i dont want that, i want to see a beautiful work made from a Japanese maker and that have lived a samurai story, i dont really care the maker, mumei or gimei because i collect this katanas for is historical past, for the owners, i dont like special one shogun sword, been in saya all his live, i like the history and the past owners. I dont like a picasso picture, even if his value is 10 million dollar, maybe i like a normal picture with a normal theme well donne. For me is a hobby not a obsesion, i like bonsai too and again i dont need to have the most incredible bonsai to be happy at all, i like what i like i dont need to follow the other collectors wishes, i follow my owns, so thanks for the advice but your kind of collection and mine are different, regards

[Marius]

My mistake, I thought you were a total "newbie", apologies.  

 

That sounds great, Eric. You study the good pieces and you seem to like Japanese swords as artefacts of the samurai times. A valid approach, too.

 

Good luck and have fun

[Ohtar]

equal, enjoy too!

[16k]

i travel to Japan one month in october, i visit many shops, katana museums, etc. I speak some japanesse too, thaks good because not many japanesse speak english there.

I was see hundred of magnificent swords, but i repiting im not disapointing at all im very gladly, seems like you want to make me see that is not a master work and i dont have the luck to find a treasure nacional japanesse nihonto, i dont want that, i want to see a beautiful work made from a Japanese maker and that have lived a samurai story, i dont really care the maker, mumei or gimei because i collect this katanas for is historical past, for the owners, i dont like special one shogun sword, been in saya all his live, i like the history and the past owners. I dont like a picasso picture, even if his value is 10 million dollar, maybe i like a normal picture with a normal theme well donne. For me is a hobby not a obsesion, i like bonsai too and again i dont need to have the most incredible bonsai to be happy at all, i like what i like i dont need to follow the other collectors wishes, i follow my owns, so thanks for the advice but your kind of collection and mine are different, regards

It seems we share the same point of view!

 

Even though I’m here to learn and, maybe, get a real masterpiece some day, I’m more into a sword that has lived and has a historical value than getting a sword as an investment or an art object.

 

I like the idea of a lowly samurai or a ronin of some sort (what can I say? I’ve watched too many Kurosawa movies ) owned and used that sword than a sword that’s been stored in a box and has never seen the light of day.

 

I also like the idea that we’re just the current custodians of a piece of life that went from hands to hands before us and will still be here when we’re long gone.

 

That, for me is the definition of a treasure. It is not defined by its monetary value but by the love those who made it and those who carried it put into it.

 

It may not be the greatest sword, from the greatest Smith, but it is special because it is yours and because by holding it in your hands, you’re holding the past and a bit of the life of those who came before you.

 

And this is also why it is our duty to care for them so that future generations may one day hold them in their hands too.

[Ohtar]

+1 this is exactly my toughts, regard guys