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Long Sarute On Kai Gunto


PNSSHOGUN

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Is anyone aware of why some silk Sarute on Kai Gunto were so long? I've noticed a few examples with these extended Sarute but can't rightly understand why they are so long, it places the tassel in a fairly awkward position. Could it be related to the long, thin silk retention cord sometimes found on Kai Gunto? As you can see in the picture it's nearly 3x the length of a normal silk Sarute.

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The join is usually hidden within the kabuto-gane.

Dave, I've seen this with IJA gunto, but have never owned a Kai with the fabric sarute. Are they anchored inside the same way? If so, I agree with all the above comments. This long one is knotted. I doubt the factory assembly would have knotted a sarute like that.

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Hi John, I still believe tied sarutes are replacements, even probably replaced/tied during war time as a repair. But not as originally issued. 

Of the dozens of original examples I have, Kai Gunto and Shin Gunto, the colour of the sarute cord is a close or even perfect match in colour to the handle wrap.  

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Using a soft fabric sarute makes sense from the point of view of the Officers who had to carry a sword around with them a lot during their daily duties. To me, the typical metal sarute would be prone to cause wear and tear on the tassel. (Ever notice how many original examples show a lot of little rips around the area where they'd have been knotted to the sarute? ) Since the tassel was an indicator of one's rank, having to walk around the unit with it all ragged looking wouldn't be considered very proper. And getting a replacement in the field probably wasn't cheap or easy.

 

Another advantage would be the user could adjust the knot to lengthen or shorten the tassel's hang to suit himself. Having it on the long side would also allow for it to be cut back and retied easily if it got frayed or worn. 

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No arguments there, Neil. I'm just speculating if having a long fabric sarute instead of a metal one could have been an option when the Officer originally purchased the sword? Its interesting that we see so many of the fabric sarutes in the same color as the handle wrap, on both Army and Navy swords. That makes me think they may have been put on when the sword was first assembled. If they were all replacments for metal sarutes broken while in use, I'd expect to see a lot more variance in the fabric colors. 

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OK, to average Joe collector, this thread looks like we are just chasing butterflies, so this is my last word on the subject (is that applause I hear?). And I agree totally with the color matching observation. Here are two, one of which is a Minatogawa. Both color match the Ito wrap. I make two final observations, firstly some of the examples sited here do not color match, and secondly, the Navy loves uniformity, so why is it that you see these so called long sarutes knotted every which way? Granny knots, reef knots, some sewn together and some just plain tied together. The Navy loves and prides itself on its knots, first thing a cadet learns.     

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Until hard evidence like WWII photos of officers with these tied Sarute or an original presentation Kai Gunto in a box unissued, replacement is the answer. It appears to be a unique Kai Gunto affair, has anyone seen this tied Sarute on Shin Gunto? To be honest it's a miracle cord Sarute on field used swords exist, even barely used swords have frayed and broken cord Sarute.

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The seller of that Kai-Gunto in John's earlier post accepted my offer, and it arrived today. Takayama Forge made blade by Hattori Masahiro.(I think the seller made a post here last year to get the translation.)

 

All the koshirae, including the handle and scabbard, are numbered and matching (#19).  So it seems completly original. I took a couple photos of the cord sarute. It's a single piece, not joined inside the handle. The color matches the handle wrapping. 

 

One little detail I didn't notice until I had it in hand is that each of the cord ends are each tied off with a very small thread, probably to prevent fraying. It seems like rather delicate work. Again, it makes me wonder if at least some of these Naval cord sarutes were an option when originally purchasing the sword? 

 

Anyway, some pics...

 

 

 

 

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Geez! I had one of these and didn't realize it until today as I was doing some work on this one! It's on a '43 Sukekuni, Seki stamped Kaigunto. The knot is very well tied with the ends secured inside the knot.

 

After seeing the differing methods of knot tieing, it makes me wonder if they are done in the field by the owners, or was there simply no set standard at the factories for tieing the knots?post-3487-0-21068500-1550419337_thumb.jpeg

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The fact that the colors of the sarute and the handle wrapping so often match is what makes me think at least some of these were done by the people making the koshirae. I'm sure others were simply expiedent field replacements too. 

 

The more I look at Shin and Kai-Guntos, the more certain it seems to me that they were working around a general pattern, and not an absolute standard. (Unlike, for example, the Type 32 or Type 95 swords.) Blades vary greatly in length, sori, and hamon. Koshirae show a lot of minor differences and personalization. Some were sold through the offical Army/Navy Officers Clubs. Others through private companies. I'm guessing a lot of that had to do with the fact these were Officer's swords, and many of them were Ancestral or Family blades. Allowances in the offical patterns had to be made to accomodate these, and things just evolved from there. 

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The fact that the colors of the sarute and the handle wrapping so often match is what makes me think at least some of these were done by the people making the koshirae. I'm sure others were simply expiedent field replacements too. 

 

The more I look at Shin and Kai-Guntos, the more certain it seems to me that they were working around a general pattern, and not an absolute standard. (Unlike, for example, the Type 32 or Type 95 swords.) Blades vary greatly in length, sori, and hamon. Koshirae show a lot of minor differences and personalization. Some were sold through the offical Army/Navy Officers Clubs. Others through private companies. I'm guessing a lot of that had to do with the fact these were Officer's swords, and many of them were Ancestral or Family blades. Allowances in the offical patterns had to be made to accomodate these, and things just evolved from there. 

 

 They were also dealing with a massive expansion of the Military, more men, more officers, more equipment in general. Throw in the extension of sword wearing to Gunzoku, and damn near anyone with any authority at all,and they just couldn't keep up with  demand!

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This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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