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Brown And Yellow Tassel


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#1 kyushukairu

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:11 PM

This sword recently sold at auction and seemed to have good provenance, which suggested that the sword belonged to a general.
However, I was intrigued by the brown and yellow tassel. I have read about different coloured tassels being used by colonial officers and contracted civilians but never actually seen one before

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  • yellow tassel.jpg

Kyle Shuttleworth Ph.D.
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#2 DRDave

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:40 PM

Can't help you with the tassel, but would like to see some additional photos of the pistol belt.


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#3 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 04:15 PM

That is an oddball! Hopefully someone who really studies tassels can chime in. The general's tassel should look like this the attached.

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  • Screenshot_20181213-071316.jpg

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#4 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 04:39 PM

Looks like a fake.


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#5 Yukihiro

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 07:16 PM

At least I was able to discover why there are two ways of tying tassels! :thumbsup:


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#6 Dave R

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Posted 13 December 2018 - 11:30 PM

 I think that is a Sun faded red... Some dyes are very fugitive, especially poorly mordant-ed (fixed)  vegetable (natural) dyes. 


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#7 Stegel

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 01:13 AM

Very interesting, Kyle.

Can you provide more pictures or even the Auction link please??


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#8 Windy

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:17 AM

It sold for £950 plus auction house (usually 23-30%). Description as follows:

A Shinto Japanese Katana with Special Order Shin-gunto Mounts, the 67.5cm blade with large irregular hamon, bo'hi running for 24cm from the one piece copper habaki, the tang signed ''MUSASHI TARO YASUKUNI'' and ''MA JU GO MAI DO FUKU SAKU'', with parcel gilt bronze tsuba, the yellow braid bound same hilt with triple chrysanthemum head menuki, the prunus decorated copper kashira set with silver family mon, hung with yellow and brown cord and tassels, the browned scabbard with copper mounts matching the hilt, with a later mahogany display stand; together with, oshigata and research material, a hessian label inscribed TAKIYAMA, OFFICER, a leather and red velvet belt and pistol holster richly embroidered with flowerheads and leaves in raised gold bullion thread, and a printed photograph of the surrendering office in a leather folding frame (4) Provenance:- surrendered at Bangkok, Siam on or around 11th January 1946 by a General of the 18th Japanese Army. Blade with hagire 18cm from the tip. Numerous areas of delamination. Braid on hilt is soiled, otherwise good.
Cheers, Matt

#9 Windy

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:20 AM

Ouch....

F34E0B9A-9E33-4E04-A52D-EA60E33A7649.jpeg
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Cheers, Matt

#10 Windy

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:25 AM

08C48AB0-9250-403D-9A22-CD5261907857.jpeg
E62FC81E-36A6-415C-A709-A54F85B2CF27.jpeg
1130B22F-60E9-44E9-B1A1-408A2942DC2F.jpeg
Cheers, Matt

#11 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 04:05 AM

The crowns of the tassel are all wrong, the patina does not even begin to match the rest of the sword either, unknown colour variant etc etc


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#12 Stegel

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 10:37 PM

I agree with you John, the crowns are large and even though genuine tassels can be seen with them, they are nearly always found on reproductions.

Civilian admin tassels are a creamy (off white) and brown, i've only seen them with South Manchurian Railway swords, but no yellow exists to my knowledge.

 

I put the image in the OP through some exposure/contrast changes and the colour is definitely yellow, and as such, i'm leaning towards fake also.

I found the auction house that hosted the sale, the description doesn't give any confidence in my mind that it is any sort of 'War trophy' as would be common in Commonwealth Forces controlled surrender ceremonies.

The date is uncertain....  Generals, rank and name unmentioned as they are probably unknown....hmmm... good paperwork!

no plaque is attached to the scabbard, as would be normal practice by the British at official ceremonies, especially when high ranking officers surrendered their swords.

quote from description :

 

 

Provenance:- surrendered at Bangkok, Siam on or around 11th January 1946 by a General of the 18th Japanese Army

and...

 

The paperwork with the sword states ''This sword was surrendered at Bangkok, Siam on or around 11th January 1946 at a ceremony presided over by Major General G.C.Evans GOC 7th Indian Division to an officer named Blois, rank and unit unknown., when twenty Generals of the 18th Japanese Army surrendered their swords. This sword is reputed to be one of them''

I think this sale was just an attempt to try and get a big return on an sword which is essentially a retired piece now in a relic class.

 

Unfortunately, after the sale, no photo's are available any longer, do you have any others of the tassel in particular Matt??


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#13 DRDave

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Posted 14 December 2018 - 11:24 PM

Worn and faded (although the description says otherwise).  Whether naturally or artificially, I don't know; but compare with others here.


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#14 Stegel

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 02:21 AM

 

Civilian admin tassels are a creamy (off white) and brown, i've only seen them with South Manchurian Railway swords, but no yellow exists to my knowledge.

 

What i was referring to here, can be seen in these pics:

00.JPG 01.JPG

 

Even this one shows evidence of wear and fading of the straps going towards the tassel itself.

 

Ohmura says they were used by the Police-affairs organization which the South Manchurian Railways oversaw.

 

30804.jpg 30811.jpg


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Stegel


#15 Stegel

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 02:29 AM

These are pics from the OP that i adjusted exposure/contrast to see variations in colour.

The yellow is definitely there...

 

crop of original picture supplied (rather dull lighting)

original.jpg

 

adjusted picture :

origina high contrastl.jpg


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#16 Windy

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 03:00 AM

I agree with you John, the crowns are large and even though genuine tassels can be seen with them, they are nearly always found on reproductions.
Civilian admin tassels are a creamy (off white) and brown, i've only seen them with South Manchurian Railway swords, but no yellow exists to my knowledge.
 
I put the image in the OP through some exposure/contrast changes and the colour is definitely yellow, and as such, i'm leaning towards fake also.
I found the auction house that hosted the sale, the description doesn't give any confidence in my mind that it is any sort of 'War trophy' as would be common in Commonwealth Forces controlled surrender ceremonies.
The date is uncertain....  Generals, rank and name unmentioned as they are probably unknown....hmmm... good paperwork!
no plaque is attached to the scabbard, as would be normal practice by the British at official ceremonies, especially when high ranking officers surrendered their swords.
quote from description :
 

and...

I think this sale was just an attempt to try and get a big return on an sword which is essentially a retired piece now in a relic class.
 
Unfortunately, after the sale, no photo's are available any longer, do you have any others of the tassel in particular Matt??


There weren’t any other photos of the tassel, it was all blade and nakago shots.
Cheers, Matt

#17 Stegel

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Posted 15 December 2018 - 03:10 AM

OK Thanks Matt,


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#18 kyushukairu

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 06:01 PM

Thank you for all your opinions and suggestions. Whilst having a causal browse through Fuller and Gregory's Japanese Civilian and Military Swords and Dirks, I believe I may have found the answer. In the section on fakes and replicas it is noted that in 1987 a company in Tokyo was selling reproduction military swords and tassels. However, it is also claimed that this company sold unusual, brown and yellow sword knots, so I think it's fair to assume that this is the origin of the tassel in question

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  • yellow tassel doc.jpg
  • yellow tassel sale.jpg

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Kyle Shuttleworth Ph.D.
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#19 Windy

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Posted 06 January 2019 - 11:52 PM

Good spot.
Cheers, Matt

#20 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 03:13 AM

That's extraordinary, was about to post the exact same thing myself Kyle! 


John





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