Jump to content


Photo

Captured Wwii Sword


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Virginian

Virginian

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 13 December 2018 - 01:32 AM

My grandfather captured 2 swords on Bougainville during WWII. This one is a military sword he took from a Japanese Captain. My grandfather was somewhat famous in the Corps for starting the Marine sniper program and he retired as a Brigidier General. He was awarded the Navy Cross at Bougainville and was nicknamed "The Beast" by his Marines. I don't think this sword is worth much, but it was captured by a true warrior.
George VO

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20181212_181735.jpg
  • 20181212_181756.jpg
  • 20181212_181823.jpg
  • 20181212_181849.jpg
  • 20181212_181906.jpg

  • Windy likes this

#2 IJASWORDS

IJASWORDS

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 520 posts
  • LocationNSW AUSTRALIA

Posted 13 December 2018 - 04:17 AM

Great family heirloom, make sure it is documented for future  generations of your family. While it is probably not a national treasure, it is worth preserving as is as a great WW2  artifact. Some members on this forum will ask you to pull it apart to show other details, just be careful, it is already fragile.  


  • Bruce Pennington likes this
Neil

#3 ROKUJURO

ROKUJURO

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,070 posts
  • LocationIn a deep valley

Posted 13 December 2018 - 04:35 AM

George,

as far as the photos allow an assessment, it looks like a civilian sword wilth a military cloth protection cover for the SAYA. It is obviously quite neglected, but here on NMB you will find lots of information about how to handle these items and how to prevent further damage. Besides its value as a war trophy, it may have some market value, and it would be a pity to see that being lost.


Regards,

Jean C.

#4 vajo

vajo

    Juyo

  • Members
  • 2,510 posts
  • LocationGermany / Bavaria

Posted 13 December 2018 - 06:30 AM

Oil the blade and never touch it with bare hands.

#5 Yukihiro

Yukihiro

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • LocationFrance (Lorraine/Lothringen)

Posted 13 December 2018 - 08:21 AM

Thank you for sharing, George! I would bet your sword was made long before WWII. The fact that the seppa (washers) overlap the hole in the sword guard (kogai hitsu-ana) is also of particular interest to me, as it is also the case on my WWII gunto, which is fitted with an older civilian tsuba.
Didier

#6 IJASWORDS

IJASWORDS

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 520 posts
  • LocationNSW AUSTRALIA

Posted 13 December 2018 - 08:45 AM

Big difference, George has a "fully" civilian mounted sword, tsuba, seppa and tzuka, and looks original in all respects. No spacers on this one. 


Neil

#7 Yukihiro

Yukihiro

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • LocationFrance (Lorraine/Lothringen)

Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:07 AM

Yes, of course - my point was only that such a configuration IS possible :)
Didier

#8 IJASWORDS

IJASWORDS

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 520 posts
  • LocationNSW AUSTRALIA

Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:11 AM

I agree. Of course, any thing is possible, especially in the high pressure nature of war time.


Neil

#9 Yukihiro

Yukihiro

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • LocationFrance (Lorraine/Lothringen)

Posted 13 December 2018 - 09:25 AM

George's sword is interesting in many respects, among other things as a testimony to the use by Japanese officers of fully civilian-mounted swords during WWII with only minimal adaptation - here, the canvas saya-cover. I would be interested to know whether there ever was a tassel on this one, as (to my point of view) no army or navy sword would ever be worn without the corresponding tassel.

I have read somewhere that NCO leather tassels were no longer available by the end of the war - could that also have been the case for officer tassels?
Didier

#10 IJASWORDS

IJASWORDS

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 520 posts
  • LocationNSW AUSTRALIA

Posted 13 December 2018 - 10:12 AM

It would probably had a blue/brown tassel, I think I can see a hole at the top of tzuka  for a sarute. The canvas cover was often used, finding good examples these days not so easy.  

Attached Thumbnails

  • zzz72.jpg
  • zzz73.jpg
  • zzz74.jpg

  • Bruce Pennington and Yukihiro like this
Neil

#11 PNSSHOGUN

PNSSHOGUN

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,141 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 13 December 2018 - 10:16 AM

From what I've seen in many wartime photos the civilian mounted swords were often seen with NCO's and lower ranks, especially in Manchuria.


  • IJASWORDS likes this

John


#12 Virginian

Virginian

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:43 PM

I appreciate all the info guys... you are a wealth of knowledge. I'd like to get both of my swords in front of an expert one of these days. I travel the country in an RV from time to time; maybe I'll take them with me on the next trip when I'm going near an authority on them.

Thanks,

George VO



#13 Brian

Brian

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 13,084 posts
  • LocationSouth Africa

Posted 13 December 2018 - 03:48 PM

Your grandfather was a great man.
https://en.wikipedia...ge_O._Van_Orden


  • dominnimod, PNSSHOGUN, Yukihiro and 1 other like this

- Admin -


#14 Virginian

Virginian

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 13 December 2018 - 11:53 PM

Thanks Brian. My grandfather was a true warrior, from a warrior family. His father was a known Marine fighter that joined the Corps in the 1890's. His son was a Marine officer who served two tours in Nam and was National Champion High Power Rifle Champion in '79. I am the 4th of 4 consecutive generations of the same name in the Marine's, but I am nowhere near the man my forefathers were. Here is an article that was originally in Leatherneck magazine: https://www.ssusa.or...orge-van-orden/  

 

Take care,

George VO


  • dominnimod likes this

#15 Redhorse

Redhorse

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationSalt Springs, Florida

Posted 14 December 2018 - 02:41 PM

I see from the pic that your grandfather was a Distinguished Rifleman.  If your father was HP champ in 79, I assume he was also?  Do you compete?


Mike Judd


#16 Virginian

Virginian

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 14 December 2018 - 03:42 PM

Mike, We are the only family to have 3 consecutive generations of Distinguished Shooters. Even though I earned the badge, I wasn't near the level my father was. I rarely compete now. For awhile, I shot vintage high power with R. Lee Ermey and another Marine buddy, but I don't have much interest in it now.

 

Take care,

George VO


  • Brian likes this

#17 Redhorse

Redhorse

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationSalt Springs, Florida

Posted 14 December 2018 - 04:42 PM

3 generations is amazing!  I'm the first DR in my family and probably the last since my son doesn't have any interest in shooting.  I shoot a lot of CMP Games stuff, but I love Service Rifle.  I still shoot EIC matches since my wife is trying to get points.  She's getting close to getting a leg!


Mike Judd


#18 Virginian

Virginian

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 14 December 2018 - 07:06 PM

Congrats on earning the Distinguished Badge. The CMP games matches are a lot of fun. I've competed in Butner, NC with the Gunny and my buddy Dennis DeMille. DeMille worked at Creedmoor Sports until recently when he moved to Virginia to partner up with me in my survival kit company. Depending on where you've shot, we may have competed together. If you've been to any of the big matches, like the east, west, or nationals, I'm sure you've shot with DeMille.
Take care,
George VO

#19 Redhorse

Redhorse

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationSalt Springs, Florida

Posted 14 December 2018 - 09:24 PM

I went to the D-day match at Talladega and saw Dennis when I visited Creedmoor.  I was surprised to hear he left.  I've only been shooting in matches since 2014.  I went to Perry in 2015 and 2016 and I shoot at Talladega a few times a year.  I stopped going to the December Talladega match a couple of years ago after trying to shoot the M1 Carbine match when it was 23 degrees!


  • Virginian likes this

Mike Judd


#20 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,215 posts

Posted 19 December 2018 - 02:27 PM

Hi George VO,

Not to hijack the thread but I have a bit of experience with Bougainville Islnd and swords. I spent 18 months there in mining in 1976-77. Our mine was at Panguna on the top of the Crown Prince Range and we looked down on Torakina on the coast to our N-W. There were no roads on that side of the island so we couldn't get down there. Torakina is where your grandfather and US forces landed and made a bridgehead. The Aussies took over from them in 1944 and split the island into two halves and steadily pushed the Japanese back to each end of the island. The Yanks shot down Admiral Yamamoto here at Buin and I saw the wreck of his plane.

One of the older members of the our Panguna mining admin staff had served here during the war and came back in the post-war period. He showed me a sword he had recovered from a Japanese soldier he and his mates had ambushed on a jungle trail and wiped out. When he turned the lead soldier over he had a katana strapped to his back (I have seen one other mounted this way). The sword he showed me was like yours (in better condition).. A civilian blade in leather combat cover...fantastic quality shakudo with real gold shishi etc inlet into them, it was signed by 'Kawauchi no Kami Kunisuke" ni-dai. Great sword. I saw plenty of war relics all over the place including two other swords. One was being used to slash cane grass on the side of the road by a local (showato) and the other was shown to me after it had been found in a dugout...just a rusted lump.

Thanks to this board I can share info like this about the place your grandfather fought, so its now a small world George...seems like we can even share a name, haha.

Regards,


  • Malcolm, Bazza, Bruno and 4 others like this
George Trotter

#21 Virginian

Virginian

    Chu Saku

  • Members
  • 10 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Posted 23 December 2018 - 07:00 PM

Thanks for taking the time to share that info George. You and the rest of these guys are gentlemen and scholars.

 

Take care,

George VO






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq