Jump to content


Photo

Japanese Surrender And Military Swords


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 BIG

BIG

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,492 posts

Posted 25 November 2018 - 09:48 PM

...https://www.awm.gov....1420300616).pdf

Best
  • David Flynn, k morita, Bazza and 6 others like this
Peter Reusch

Dai ichi - dai man - dai kichi

#2 TETSUGENDO

TETSUGENDO

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,940 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 25 November 2018 - 10:47 PM

Peter,

 

Yet another great synopsis of a complex subject, this is an excellent start for those who wish to delve deeper into this topic. For those desiring a general understanding all the important factors are covered here.  Excellent!

 

-S-


StevenK


#3 Tom Darling

Tom Darling

    Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 207 posts

Posted 25 November 2018 - 11:44 PM

Thanks Peter, it was Great.


Tom D.

#4 seattle1

seattle1

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 871 posts

Posted 26 November 2018 - 03:31 PM

Hello:
Excellent stuff Peter.
Arnold F.

#5 Mister Gunto

Mister Gunto

    Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 123 posts
  • LocationSacramento, USA

Posted 28 November 2018 - 06:11 PM

Great article!

Bradley S. 


#6 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,267 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 08:07 AM

Very interesting  Peter.

Living in Australia we sometimes come across surrendered swords from the New Guinea, Netherlands East Indies, Borneo etc. campaigns.

I picked up a very nice gendaito in Type 98 fittings (silver habaki) with kabuto fitted with silver mon (torn off prior to surrender).

The sword is by an unknown modern smith named SHIGEKUNI.

 

In direct reference to your post on Australian surrender swords the Australian who received this sword wrote on the blade in fountain pen ink the following (no doubt translated by a prisoner from a cloth surrender tag). The ink is long gone, but the scratches - acidic ink left the following inscription (pic):

"Sword of 2nd Lt. Kume

Kaede Div (Yellow (Autumn) Leaves)

Made by Shigekuni"

 

Kaede Division is the 32nd Div, 2nd Southern Army (Lt. Gen. Teshima). 32nd Div  consisted of the 210, 211. 212 Regts from Tokyo.

They surrendered at Halmahera/Morotai N.E.I. on 9/9/1945.

 

Thanks for the post Peter, hope I added a little bit extra,

Regards,

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_6515.JPG

  • David Flynn, Stegel, BIG and 3 others like this
George Trotter

#7 Stegel

Stegel

    Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 213 posts
  • LocationMelbourne Australia

Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:50 AM

Thanks Peter, very interesting read!

 

And Thanks for sharing your sword too George! (although i would have preferred more pictures!! :glee: ) I really like this sort of stuff, very interesting!

 

Do any of our members have swords which have been surrendered, be they American surrenders or British/Australian that they could share??


Stegel


#8 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,267 posts

Posted 04 December 2018 - 07:53 AM

Hi Stegel,

I found a couple of pictures of that Shigekuni surrender sword for you.

Very good sword, wish I knew who he was...unknown gendai smith.

Good fittings, silver habaki, silver mon (now removed). 2nd Lt Kume must have had it specially made.

Regards,

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_6516.JPG
  • IMG_6517.JPG

  • Stegel likes this
George Trotter

#9 Stegel

Stegel

    Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 213 posts
  • LocationMelbourne Australia

Posted 15 December 2018 - 03:31 AM

Thanks George!

It's very nice and i'm feeling much better after seeing more! :)

 

Now with you being a curator and what i would call an academic also, I'd like to pick your brain and ask if any of the swords surrendered to the Australians at their ceremonies (as war trophies), had plaques fitted to the scabbards? Or is that a predominantly British theme??

 

Years ago, the Museum here had swords on display, but they were no longer there the last time i went, and haven't been for ages, so i cannot confirm one way or the other.


Stegel


#10 Yukihiro

Yukihiro

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 84 posts
  • LocationFrance (Lorraine/Lothringen)

Posted 15 December 2018 - 12:26 PM

00001_Sabre-historique-Japonais-SHIN-GUNTO-seconde-guerre-mondiale.jpg
00007_Sabre-historique-Japonais-SHIN-GUNTO-seconde-guerre-mondiale.jpg

Speaking of plaques, what do you think of this "historical" sword? https://www.naturabu...em-5257773.html

Regards,

Didier
  • paul griff likes this
Didier

#11 Shamsy

Shamsy

    Jo Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 729 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 15 December 2018 - 12:45 PM

The British were very fond of putting plaques on just about everything weapon they captured. Pistols and cannons often bear plaques or inscriptions too. It's a fantastic boon to those collectors like me who want to know a bit of history behind an item. Would I pay the 4,600€? Goodness no, but it is a lovely looking sword.
Steve
Collecting Type 95 NCO swords

#12 Yukihiro

Yukihiro

    Chu Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 84 posts
  • LocationFrance (Lorraine/Lothringen)

Posted 15 December 2018 - 12:46 PM

I agree with you : it is overpriced.
  • IJASWORDS likes this
Didier

#13 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,267 posts

Posted 19 December 2018 - 07:20 AM

Hi Stegel,

Sorry for the delay.

Yes I was in the Western Australian Museum 26 years and especially interested in the arms and armour collections. I wrote the catalogue of the Japanese sword collection there in 1989. There were 82 swords in the collection, most of them donated by Major Cool, a retired Dutch Army officer. None of them (I'm talking about those used by the Japanese Army) had surrender plaques or notices on them. During this time I also had access to the WA Army Museum collection and none of their dozen swords had any such addition either. I have also seen a fair number of the military swords in the Aust. War Museum collection and do not recall any plaques either. A fair number of swords have some kind of "peripheral" (though important) paperwork or family statement with them explaining who /where/ when they were surrendered, but plaques...virtually never in Australia. The only sword with an "attached" notice of surrender I have seen is the Shigekuni blade I show above....and that only identifies the Japanese officer, his unit  and the maker. From this the place and date of surrender can be known....such informations are a rarity...even the cloth tags usually only identify name rank and home address, usually not unit.

Hope this helps,


George Trotter

#14 Malcolm

Malcolm

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 1,768 posts
  • LocationUnited Kingdom

Posted 19 December 2018 - 10:31 AM

Hi George.,

 

Excellent input as always.

 

Soldiers being soldiers the world over, one cannot help but wonder what nickname did Major Cool's men give him?

 

I know Field Marshall Sir Francis Festing was affectionately known as  "Frontline Frankie" by his men (Because he was always at the pointy end of proceedings).

 

Could there have also been a Corporal Punishment or General Insanity?

 

:)


Malcolm


#15 george trotter

george trotter

    Sai Jo Saku

  • Members
  • 2,267 posts

Posted 19 December 2018 - 02:35 PM

haha very funny. I hope I don't get into trouble, but I don't think the Dutch soldiers had a sense of humour? (just joking!).

I did hear of an NCO named Sergeant Major though...you couldn't make this stuff up could you.

Regards,


  • Malcolm likes this
George Trotter




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

IPB Skin By Virteq