Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 What drew me to this item was the mune and basic hamon/ha. Prior to this purchase roughly months ago I had almost zero detailed knowledge of Nihonto. Only the basics did I know such as "folded" steel aaaaand that's about it lol So about 6 months after looking at my good friends Gunto i told myself "f*ck it" I'm not getting any younger it's time to drop at least a grand on a true Nihonto... so i found a really nice "great wave" katana. For an accepted price of $375 no less! Well in my haste I failed to notice that "Chen" is in fact Chinese (I think) and the "great wave" was not forged in the traditional sense but forged using modern techniques with some similar hardening done at the completion of forging. Anyways all that led up to this... When I got the Paul Chen in hand I was SUPER IMPRESSED! OMG I fell in love with it! I could tell that this smith and his factory truly cared about what they make. The great wave can balance on my finger and it cuts like a hungry elderly at Costco during samplers. Lol So I still didn't have a true Nihonto which led me to this a week later for a great price of well under a thousand dollars. PS:I know the blade is supposed to face up but this is the only way it fits on this particular stand without trying to manhandle it. Looks good tho I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain,looks quite nice, congrats!It should be positioned cutting edge up on the KATANA-KAKE, the same way it is worn in the OBI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain, looks quite nice, congrats! It should be positioned cutting edge up on the KATANA-KAKE, the same way it is worn in the OBI. Thanks! Even the kogatana is still super sharp even with the cracks and rust it's amazing. It feels and cuts better than some modern day blades brand new. It says "bishu osafune" then smiths name. The Waki is sturdy as heck! It's roughly 14.5 inches long (nagasa) but has a super sharp "sweet spot" on the ha that just slices through tamegeshiri (bamboo mats?) Yes I did a cut test once on a roll of lightly soaked bamboo mat. Not a speck of any damage or scratch on the sword but it cut clean through the mat in one go with one hand! I was kinda shocked! And before you all think that I shouldn't have tested this Shinto blade on a mat let me say that it's a beast that weighs as much as a pound and a half or almost 2. also there are a few minor fukure, scratches, tiny rust basically an old polish with some minor forging flaws. And please don't think I would do this with any old Nihonto! But it sure felt AMAZING! This little Waki has really impressed me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain,it is TAMESHIGIRI, and they are not bamboo mats, but should be TATAMI OMOTE.Please refrain from doing it again! I know, it is yours, and you could do with it what you want, but please do not promote it then. This is not the way we understand caring for and preserving an art sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain if we all did the same with out Nihonto there would be not a lot of preservation going on. And shinto Nihonto are old antiques that deserve respect and preservation. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain, it is TAMESHIGIRI, and they are not bamboo mats, but should be TATAMI OMOTE. Please refrain from doing it again! I know, it is yours, and you could do with it what you want, but please do not promote it then. This is not the way we understand caring for and preserving an art sword. Don't worry I won't but the sword was craving blood so we came to an agreement. It sacrificed its future for one request of a revisit to its youth, as would most warrior spirits. A match between sword and mat before being wiped down after and lightly oiled to be put back up on the stand... Oh how the Nihonto do weep... but that day this Waki was silent. Content with its destruction of tameshigiri. Trading every day thereafter for a life of pamper and admiration... but while the chattering crowds slather praise upon it, it hears them not. Lost in the memory of that one day and in the snap of wind that was...WAKIZASHI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajo Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Collecting swords has nothing to do with playing samurai. All this cutting around sport is something crazy. You can cut with everything if it is sharp. You don't need a Japanese sword for it. Buy a 120 Dollar chinese fake katana and it will cut also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain if we all did the same with out Nihonto there would be not a lot of preservation going on. And shinto Nihonto are old antiques that deserve respect and preservation. Greg Yes I understand but really there are different levels of Nihonto and stressing exactly the same over each one is just too anal retentive and stressful for me. Such as how many times will different members remind me of the same exact thing right after each other as if I didn't understand to begin with? I understand the value and respect given to Nihonto and I, once again, would never intentionally damage an item or use a pristine blade of "value" for cutting mats but treating one level of condition as the same as the highest level kinda defeats the purpose of having grades and rarities, similar for Nihonto and lessens the given "ratings" making them all appear as equals. I didn't just start swinging this sword out the box nor would I ever. I studied it for multiple hours upon days allot of time with my face an inch away. I bought boxes of cotton gloves. I have the proper oil from Japan. I constantly read on how to prevent rust etc... and I felt comfortable with the strength and condition of this sword to give it the swing it deserves! I could never be a Nihonto collector and treat every single blade equal. Yes I treat them equal as far as cleaning or just leaving alone with good ventilation and oil but its the same reason I could never own birds or something the has to be kept in a cage... to deprive those beasts of their freedom would kill me from the inside. As with Nihonto a sword is constantly seeking blood. Once in a while with a certain blade God forbid we settle for a rolled up mat. And once again don't assume (for future reference not saying you or anyone has) that I'm just a barbarian swinging away with every blade or chance I get. This Wakizashi was pestering me night and day and the only thing to get it to stop was a compromise! Now doesn't this conversation make you value your Nihonto that much more? Soon you will begin to hear their inner spirits if you haven't already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Collecting swords has nothing to do with playing samurai. All this cutting around sport is something crazy. You can cut with everything if it is sharp. You don't need a Japanese sword for it. Buy a 120 Dollar chinese fake katana and it will cut also. What makes you think I didn't pay close to that for this Wakizashi? Also if you read the entire thread you'll have seen that i have had prior a Paul Chen great wave that I could have used for cutting. I'm not just interested in sharp or cutting. I'm just amazed how sharp a 340yo Wakizashi is considering it hasn't been polished in maybe over 100 years. Please don't confuse me with a typical "American gungho blade guy" who just wants to wack everything then grind away the edge trying to sharpen. Other than taking classes and practicing duels with bokken style wood and plastic swords, I've never owned any true blades. Jyst read allot about them I mean, what did you think would happen to the Waki? Or what is your mind picturing happening? A sword fight between a half wet soft mat and a tempered iron blade? Forgive my sarcasm and I don't mean to come across as not understanding sword safety or Nihonto etiquette but none of you have handled this item up close and judged for yourself. Otherwise it seems like, for some, Nihonto collecting fits only inside a box with no divergence from the rigid "custodial" interpretation of nihonto collecting. Which I can understand and appreciate and I myself am trying to follow the regiments with a similar state of mind for preservation and care of each blade. But I am totally ok with, if ever so rarely in life, the regiment of nihonto collecting box was sliced open once or twice during my time as a custodian. And to add that this particular blade is extremely sturdy and strong. It doesn't feel it's age at all. Compared to earlier and even similar contemporary blades this Waki feels like it was made yesterday(aside from koshirae). Now I'm not using that to justify the "chop" but I think if you hold it it might try and convince you to swing away???? Going forward I haven't found, seen or heard any blades that want to slice out of the box and if i do find one I'll buy some ear plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain why are you on this forum exactly? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain why are you on this forum exactly?To get/exchange knowledge from other members and to sometimes stimulate conversation. To share. Build relationships..etc.. But may I ask why you think I'm here? And why do you ask? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain if we all did the same with out Nihonto there would be not a lot of preservation going on. Greg I have never once advocated for that which kind of relates to a point I was trying to make. Your mind went from one slice from a farely "tired" and forging flawed blade (as far as condition goes and not that it makes it any less of a great sword in my eyes) to everyone and every blade doing slicing. None of which i have ever advocated or even considered. But I forget that I'm on so late and I'm having a discussion with people from Japan? So I think there is a different perspective so to speak(in regards to some things not everything). So I can see how much you all care about the methods and regiments, etc... I understand that Japanese are very organized and structured as a society and individuals and i admire that and respect that very much. I just forget that I'm not talking to a lesser form of appreciation and admiration of techniques and traditions that many in my country seem to be. I must remember to keep my mind in a certain frame of thought at times. With all respect and sometimes i wish more people in America would be such as some of you in Japan. But I do understand what youre saying and I agree. That's why I see every blade as not equals in every aspect, which doesn't mean good or bad or what I would or would not do, etc aside from the universal respect of Nihonto which is I think what everyone here is referencing. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with everyone, what in doing is judging only as an individual with hand on inspection and decision. One can use a certain Nihonto,I feel, for tameshigiri (sorry if I mispronounced) based upon his or her judgement and comfort within certain boundaries not too exceed the health of the blade or excessive use over frequent periods. But that is only my opinion and with time maybe that will change. What it is not is a disagreement or argument about what should be or shouldn't be done as custodians. Also what it is not is a constant desire to cut things or belittle the Nihonto name. I think good things come from discussions such as this. Weather I'm wrong or not isn't important to me. What is important is the knowledge we take away and the ways in which we become better individuals. And btw I'm a writer and poet by trade and schooling so forgive me for the long winded, ill written posts and replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shugyosha Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 To get/exchange knowledge from other members and to sometimes stimulate conversation. To share. Build relationships..etc.. But may I ask why you think I'm here? And why do you ask? Just curious. So what's in it for us exactly? It doesn't appear that you have a lot to share and the build relationships thing isn't working out too well either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain,If you come on a Nihonto forum and talk about amateur polishing, or cutting stuff with antique swords, you are going to have a short visit.In 11-12 years, we have seen this hundreds of time. Trust me, we don't want essays about spirituality or reasons why this time it is ok. It is never ok.Easiest way to continue here is to just say "ok, noted" and carry on. You are not going to convince anyone that it is ok. It is NOT ok. And we also don't want debates about when it is ok and when it is not.Just accept that people here feel strongly about things, and note the points. Nothing worse than having the same debate over and over again while someone tries to convince us that what he is doing is not bad for a sword. It is always bad for a sword. One scratch, and the whole surface of the sword needs to be removed to that level.Just take the advice, and run with it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 So what's in it for us exactly? It doesn't appear that you have a lot to share and the build relationships thing isn't working out too well either. Awww did we just bond? That makes us fwends! Well let's see. You're demanding a quid pro quo? What would you like? I'm open for suggestions I've made how many threads? I'll say 5 since I registered roughly a month ago? I'm just guessing now so please don't quote me. Now if I had to answer your question, not that I'm trying to brag or seem like I'm "contributing" more or less than anyone here, I would say that, if a person with limited knowledge were to stumble across any of my threads if any of such threads contained relevant information to their search and actually read through each reply without skimming or stopping to exaggerate or assume than they would come away with information regarding, so far how to spot gimei from certain schools and why they would be counterfeit in the first place (even tho the gimei is still hundreds of years old), why to not home polish, information and pictures along with a story about a gunto blade, soon to be pictures of my new koto tanto along with whatever heated debate comes with it... But I would never personally tally how much I've contributed compared to how much I've learned for the sake of what? Trying to insult another member/ person because you don't like me or the way i wax my opinion? Can I ask if you even read this thread word for word? I'm not arguing with or disagreeing with anyone or claiming they're wrong or that I know more, etc... I simply gave an opinion. But we're friends now right? So what's a little misunderstanding amongst friends? I swear people hate me at first but once they get to know me they actually quite like me. And I don't have any lowlife friends either because it seems the type of person that usually bonds with me is a highly cerebral smart person. I've never been known to attract stupid friends unless I'm just the dumbest one in the room maybe? Lol I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain, If you come on a Nihonto forum and talk about amateur polishing, or cutting stuff with antique swords, you are going to have a short visit. In 11-12 years, we have seen this hundreds of time. Trust me, we don't want essays about spirituality or reasons why this time it is ok. It is never ok. Easiest way to continue here is to just say "ok, noted" and carry on. You are not going to convince anyone that it is ok. It is NOT ok. And we also don't want debates about when it is ok and when it is not. Just accept that people here feel strongly about things, and note the points. Nothing worse than having the same debate over and over again while someone tries to convince us that what he is doing is not bad for a sword. It is always bad for a sword. One scratch, and the whole surface of the sword needs to be removed to that level. Just take the advice, and run with it. I never meant to convince anyone when or why. As I've stated that's how I felt at the moment. It seems people like to let their minds run wild with my words. And I'm not the one bringing up the debate am I? I'm responding to the same exact line of responses. Usually members read to see if what they're going to say has been said. I only need to read it once. And again to make myself clear I'm not trying to make anything ok or justify anything or change anyone's opinions. Like I said I'm EXPLAINING myself and people seem to jump to conclusions And who are you to tell anther person what to say or how to say it? Seriously? I should just say "ok" and walk away? How would any information manifest or pov's sharpened. The world and internet would be a pretty dull place if everyone used your advice. Like I said, I'm not trying to alter anyone's beliefs or continue or start the "same old" debates. I started a thread to show my Wakazashi and members simultaneously began the debate and I gave my state of mind and thoughts during that time and up until now. It's how people speak in real life. If I feel the need to respectfully address points from another members reply, it should be welcomed and expected. For instance about the scratch you mention and having it have to be taken down to that level in the steel. I understand that. I get it. And I understood that then as well and was willing to take that risk with that particular blade. Do I feel that way every single time? Do I desire to do that every time with Nihonto or modern Chinese? If I did, such as this instance, does that make me a bad person who disrespects Nihonto or disregard and start "debates or arguments"...NO! It means that on rare occasions and with certain blades, I'm not as regimented as others. Which ive said before oh response to the same lines of replies. It also doesn't mean that I will continue with that pov going forward. Maybe all I needed was that one slice to get it out of my system? I don't know but I don't think about doing it on a constant or even semi regular basis. Yes you've been here for a decade and have read and seen it all. I get how that becomes annoying to see the same thing over and over again. But on the same note "veteran members" also develop a propensity to see the bad first and assume that every newb is a dismissive know it all that wants to dive head first into collecting and treating his or her Nihonto like a modern tool set. I get it. But once in a while there's a newb that stumbles down the same path while listening to great advice as well as having a genuine conversation and I think allot of veterans and people in general skim posts or assume content. Just because I like to write doesn't mean I'm disrespecting or disagreeing or presuming to change (or ever wanting to since I've been) anyone's opinions or methods. And for the record nothing happened after the "slicing incident". No scratches or bends, minor damage. Nothing. And yes I understand things could have been different. Also I would never tell another person how to respond to another if that person wasn't being rude or insulting. I like reading others long responses. I'm sorry if others don't like reading mine because I can come across as long winded and condescending. It's a curse I was born with that has gotten me into many a scrap but also has gained me great friendships from people I admire greatly. All I wanted to do was showcase my Wakizashi. Others replied to a specific incident and I responded. Don't blame me for debate. Also when I write I'm in a calm collected mood so I don't know of which tone others read my replies with so maybe sometimes they can seem angry? I dunno. But I do read and take everyone's posts to heart and learn from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Ok. My eyes and fingers hurt I'm going to bed. Much respect to everyone here and their love for this. Every time I make a thread I come sways different person. So thank you. And yes I'm long winded. Sorry lol And this thread isn't over because I'm having a shirasaya made for this Waki to respectfully and properly allow it to rest. It shall cut no more. Good night everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Dwain,I have the impression that this discussion is going nowhere, but let me add a few subject related points:Your sturdy WAKIZASHI has some minor FUKURE That could mean for the future of the otherwise beautiful blade that another polish could end up in big open FUKURE. It is probably an unsigned SHINTO blade, and swordsmiths of that period normally signed their work unless they didn't feel that it represented their level of quality. So your blade may indeed have some hidden flaws. In my eyes this would be a point to really keep the blade intact. And don't tell us that a sturdy blade cannot be damaged! There are so many report about that!Second: Don't put an oiled blade back in the SAYA! Dust will gather on the blade and cause longitudinal scratches. I have never felt the sensation of a 'bloodthirsty blade'. I like the many sword related myths and stories that are told in Japan, but I think your poetry is carrying you away. Stay on the ground, it is simply the best cutting weapon you can have, but nothing more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Then why not simply make a quiet & respectful post about your new sword and don't haul off on another "deep & meaningful" rant trying to justify you clear and real disregard and ignorance of the Japanese sword. At the moment you are some loudmouth yahoo bursting into a library with a megaphone and sparklers attached to his beer hat yelling and gibbering about how he is hacking away with his new Japanese sword at trees and beachmats alike. If you started a new job would you immediately start yelling to your coworkers about all the horrible and inappropriate things you did at your last position? This forum is not a competition, it is a place to learn, appreciate and preserve the Japanese sword. You may want to reflect on just why you are here and why you're getting such a negative response from virtually every member who has posted. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 And who are you to tell anther person what to say or how to say it? Seriously? I should just say "ok" and walk away?....... ......For instance about the scratch you mention and having it have to be taken down to that level in the steel. I understand that. I get it. And I understood that then as well and was willing to take that risk with that particular blade. ... #1 - My house, my rules. I can uninvite just as easily as invite. #2 - Well WE are not willing to let someone take that risk. You don't own that sword. You are looking after it for the next generation. As such, we all own it, and you are custodian. We like the fact that Japanese swords have lasted 1000 years. We want more to last that long. Good or average. They all count. If you feel differently, there are other places on the net. Maybe Facebook. You have a choice to make. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelr Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Brian all well said. Thank you and I hope this ends this insanity MikeR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rayhan Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 I think Dwains' cup is full so trying to pour more into it isn't going to hold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Anyone want to start on pool on how long this guy lasts? I'm guessing 1-2 more posts. I entered the data from his posts into the the analyzer and here are the results: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Now that is nasty Ed We get accused of being horrible to newcomers. But really...there are limits. How far do I have to allow things to go before enough is enough and we have to put our foot down?People tried repeatedly to guide here. But sometimes the train wants to go off the tracks it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Now that is nasty Ed We get accused of being horrible to newcomers. But really...there are limits. How far do I have to allow things to go before enough is enough and we have to put our foot down? People tried repeatedly to guide here. But sometimes the train wants to go off the tracks it seems. Now that is nasty Ed We get accused of being horrible to newcomers. But really...there are limits. How far do I have to allow things to go before enough is enough and we have to put our foot down? People tried repeatedly to guide here. But sometimes the train wants to go off the tracks it seems. Are you referring to me and if so could you explain exactly how I'm going off the tracks? Anyways, new pic. Not a traditional how do you say? Display mounting? But even touching and moving this Waki barely several times in months I feel as if I'm handling something very special. For instance. I have always displayed bare blade and saya seperate because I didn't want any moisture forming to cause rust. Also just displaying it like this with it resting on its Sageo I feel as if that will cause fraying or minor damage. I am very thoughtful and mindful . Would any of you consider this to be a bad way to display? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Desplay on saya before tsuba. Not on saego. Also tsuka to the left. Denotes to house guest safety being harder to attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Desplay on tsuka an saya. Not on saego. Also tsuka to the left. Denotes to house guest safety being harder to attack. Thanks andI agree sadly this stand is tanto size and too small so Im limited to positions. Im thinking of putting back on wall bare blade if I cant get to a comfortable spot. If you notice behind the Waki on the left is the bottom corner of my wall hanger where I am using the method you described I have several orders of different stands being delivered so hopefully one will match with this sword. But the more I look at this display the more I begin to like it and how it kind of sweeps gently up in a diagonal fashion. But you're right I dont feel comfortable and the "wabi sabi" is off ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazeaglory Posted October 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Desplay on saya before tsuba. Not on saego. Also tsuka to the left. Denotes to house guest safety being harder to attack. 20170925_104715.jpg Did you make that display? Its very nice. Really liking the different brown shades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just move it to tsuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 2, 2018 Report Share Posted October 2, 2018 Tanto stands will work until kake arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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