Ebay Hozons, Are They Legitimate

[Henry]

Hey guys, wanting to ask for your input on these types of listings:

 

https://www.ebay.comitm/LONG-WAKIZASHI-sword-w-NBTHK-HOZON-judgment-UDA-MUROMACHI-33-3-22-7/123165152003?hash=item1cad371303:g:QRkAAOSwpHpbEKA~

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HR-13-WAKIZASHI-OOMINOKAMI-HISAMITU-with-NBTHK-Judgmant-paper-Edo/323467867388?hash=item4b502ff4fc%3Ag%3Ar2cAAOSwL~hbLJ1j&LH_BIN=1

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shorted-OLD-Signed-Waki-NBTHK-Japanees-Tanto-Tachi-sword-Kabuto-Katana-Samurai/263794268518?hash=item3d6b5d1966:g:8c4AAOSwtOZbho4V

 

 

Are these all hozons, or just the first one? I know that NBTHK puts four types of certifications with Hozon being the lowest, but my assumption is that they would authenticate swords that are genuine, but not good enough to be categorized in the Hozon category?

 

Any suggestions of prominent members on the forums in which they have cheap certified swords and willing to ship to Canada?

 

Thanks for your time

 

Henry

Edited September 27, 2018 by metamon

[Ray Singer]

For the blades with a white kanteisho, you are viewing an NBTHK Kicho Token certificate (which is a depricated certification).

• Mumei (Omi no kami Hisamichi)
• Kanenaga (Seki)

The third sword has been issued Hozon as described.

• Mumei (Uda)

Presently, the NBTHK does not issue any kanteisho for swords which do not qualify for at least Hozon. There many individuals here who sell swords and are willing to ship to Canada. Suggest reviewing the Sales section and asking the sellers individually if they have any concerns about shipping internationally.

[Pete Klein]

This is a great article on the evolution of the NBTHK shinsa origami:

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/japanese_sword_papers.html

[Henry]

For the blades with a white kanteisho, you are viewing an NBTHK Kicho Token certificate (which is a depricated certification).

• Mumei (Omi no kami Hisamichi)
• Kanenaga (Seki)

The third sword has been issued Hozon as described.

• Mumei (Uda)

Presently, the NBTHK does not issue any kanteisho for swords which do not qualify for at least Hozon. There many individuals here who sell swords and are willing to ship to Canada. Suggest reviewing the Sales section and asking the sellers individually if they have any concerns about shipping internationally.

 

That is perfect to know. Thank you so much for your thorough explanation, I sincerely appreciate it. I will try perusing the sales section (which I already did) but a search did not yield much threads about Hozons, and most that I was interested in was either out of my budget range or sold out weeks to months ago. I think I'll make a buy thread, thank you once again!

 

This is a great article on the evolution of the NBTHK shinsa origami:

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/japanese_sword_papers.html

This is precisely what I wanted to learn more about, and I sincerely appreciate your link!

 

Henry

Edited September 27, 2018 by metamon

[Alex A]

 

 

 

Any suggestions of prominent members on the forums in which they have cheap certified swords and willing to ship to Canada?

 

Thanks for your time

 

Sometimes cheap certified swords appear in the sales section, keep an eye on it, but be quick.

 

Your doing the right thing trying to avoid Ebay as a beginner, I see gimei (with hozen) quite regularly.

 

ps, not talking about any sellers you have presented, not looked at them.

[Henry]

Sometimes cheap certified swords appear in the sales section, keep an eye on it, but be quick.

 

Your doing the right thing trying to avoid Ebay as a beginner, I see gimei (with hozen) quite regularly.

 

ps, not talking about any sellers you have presented, not looked at them.

Thanks for replying!

 

I know that good swords appear in the sales section, but I would have no idea what I should be looking for so I would probably be too slow, after doing the research. I'll try though!

 

I see that gimei hozon is not recommended. I'll keep that in mind!

 

I'm not too sure what you meant by your last sentence though!

 

Henry

Edited September 27, 2018 by metamon

[Alex A]

Im saying that im not suggesting any of the sellers above are selling anything fake.

 

Be wary around Ebay, every so often I see a sword for sale with papers, and it just don't add up for one reason or another.

 

You would be better buying books and learning more from this site and others, before you buy. (its been said a million times)

[Ken-Hawaii]

Metamon, please sign all of your posts with your first name, per Brian's rules; it's easiest to do that with your signature.

 

eBay is really no place for beginners, to be blunt, as you don't yet have the experience to evaluate blades. As Ray said, your best bet is to look at the sellers who are NMB members, at least until you've bought some books & studied for yourself.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Metamon,

 

I've got a mumei wakizashi with Hozon papers that I was thinking of moving on. 

 

I'd be happy to offer it to you before I post it in the for sale section. 

 

Drop me a PM if you think you might be interested and I'll send you the details, alternatively I can post them here and you can ask for the views of the other Board members...but you would be better off spending some money on books and learning about what you should be looking for first of all.

 

Kind regards,

John

[Ray Singer]

Swords which have NBTHK Hozon kanteisho will be have an authentic signature (not gimei) if signed. Some collectors have concerns with the older, deprecated kanteisho formats (Kicho, Tokubetsu Kicho and Koshu Tokubetsu Kicho).

 

I see that gimei hozon is not recommended. I'll keep that in mind!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Papered swords are coming onto ebay quite regularly now, some of the sellers have quite decent swords too. As always be careful and do your research, for a very long time Japanese ebay listings were stuff that didn't sell on the Japanese market and were chiefly Gimei or very tired & out of polish. 

[Henry]

Im saying that im not suggesting any of the sellers above are selling anything fake.

 

Be wary around Ebay, every so often I see a sword for sale with papers, and it just don't add up for one reason or another.

 

You would be better buying books and learning more from this site and others, before you buy. (its been said a million times)

Thank you for your sincere answer. I think I will refrain from buying on ebay at all and will just stick to this forum. I will of course be more studious too and browse this forum along with reading all the helpful links the community has provided in such supportive fashion.

 

Metamon, please sign all of your posts with your first name, per Brian's rules; it's easiest to do that with your signature.

 

eBay is really no place for beginners, to be blunt, as you don't yet have the experience to evaluate blades. As Ray said, your best bet is to look at the sellers who are NMB members, at least until you've bought some books & studied for yourself.

 

So sorry about missing that rule! I only realized now (along with your post from the other thread comment I made), that after I signed up for an account, there's hidden resources and guides which would help me through my journey into this realm. Thank you for your patience in helping with a newbie.

 

My years of hobby collecting other items and instinct has told me that I am way above my head in collecting Japanese swords, and turns out I am correct. I will definitely refrain from buying on ebay, and aim to look for a seller on NMB while continuing my studies into this type of collecting. I know I have a lot of catching up and studying to do before I can even consider doing anything without the help of fellow forum experts.

 

Hi Metamon,

 

I've got a mumei wakizashi with Hozon papers that I was thinking of moving on. 

 

I'd be happy to offer it to you before I post it in the for sale section. 

 

Drop me a PM if you think you might be interested and I'll send you the details, alternatively I can post them here and you can ask for the views of the other Board members...but you would be better off spending some money on books and learning about what you should be looking for first of all.

 

Kind regards,

John

Hi John! 

 

I would be really interested actually, and please do drop me a PM. You can also post it here as I would be asking fellow forum members anyways about it anyways!

 

I do agree that books is also a way to go, but I also think it would be great to own a starter piece while doing more studying, as that would fuel my excitement even more into this new type of collecting

 

 

Swords which have NBTHK Hozon kanteisho will be have an authentic signature (not gimei) if signed. Some collectors have concerns with the older, deprecated kanteisho formats (Kicho, Tokubetsu Kicho and Koshu Tokubetsu Kicho).

 

 

That is true, I totally forgot about that. Thank you for taking the time out in giving me such informative responses! I have remembered reading articles that older formats are more forged than the newer formats, but once again this is completely out of my realm of expertise so I would have to study more on this.

 

 

Papered swords are coming onto ebay quite regularly now, some of the sellers have quite decent swords too. As always be careful and do your research, for a very long time Japanese ebay listings were stuff that didn't sell on the Japanese market and were chiefly Gimei or very tired & out of polish. 

 

Thank you for your response! I realized now that I would be completely out of my depth at the moment going through ebay since I honestly have no idea how to verify the provenance nor the quality of the sword. That's also a worry I have; Japanese markets tend to not go international, regardless of the hobby, so for sellers in Japan to want to go out of their way to move inventory on ebay (facing customs, imports restrictions, etc. ) makes me wary that I am overpaying for something that is insignificant. 

 

 

 

I want to sincerely thank everyone for taking time out of their day in responding to me, a complete novice, and providing so much patience to a complete new beginner. This was a warm welcome I was not expecting at all, and really happy to join this community!

 

Henry

Edited September 27, 2018 by metamon

[Alex A]

Good starter book Henry, and cheap https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/4805311347/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1538055058&sr=8-1&keywords=the+samurai+sword+a+handbook+by+john+m.+yumoto

[Henry]

Good starter book Henry, and cheap https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/4805311347/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1538055058&sr=8-1&keywords=the+samurai+sword+a+handbook+by+john+m.+yumoto

Thank you

 

Going to get that.

[Ray Singer]

You're getting good advice in starting with a good primer. I would recommend these (and in the following order):

• https://www.amazon.com/Facts-Fundamentals-Japanese-Swords-Collectors/dp/1568365837
• https://www.amazon.com/Connoisseurs-Book-Japanese-Swords/dp/1568365810

[Alex A]

All 3 for less than $90, i have a vague memory of seeing connoisseurs at $250 whilst it was out of print, grab it whilst you can

[Ray Singer]

Likewise for Nakahara's book. We are fortunate to have reprints available today. 

 

All 3 for less than $90, i have a vague memory of seeing connoisseurs at $250 whilst it was out of print, grab it whilst you can

[Shugyosha]

Hi Henry,

 

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner; I've been away for a few days and didn't have access to the sword.

 

I've just dug out the paperwork that goes with the blade and I've had a bit of a brain fart: it actually has NPO NTHK papers rather than NBTHK, so it has been authenticated by a body that doesn't use the Hozon, Tokubetsu Hozon etc system. Apologies for that - let me know if you are still interested and I will post pictures and full details here, otherwise I will offer it for sale generally.

 

Kind regards,

John