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Old? I Mean Old Old?

Blazeaglory

By Blazeaglory
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rkg Mentor

rkg

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It looks like it starts out "Yama shiro kuni"...  then it gets illegible (to me anyway) - it looks like somebody overwrote the kaneiye on the left side of the nakago ana maybe?  Weird.  Or maybe its just lack of caffeine...

 

In any case I wouldn't think this piece is that old - I'd posit mid to late edo, but as usual that opinion is probably worth what you paid for it...

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

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Blazeaglory Mentor

Blazeaglory

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This isn't mine but I was thinking about buying it. Don't have any money now after buying a koto tanto. So basically im just drooling.

 

The menuki looks to be Tokagowa? Either way I really like this set-up. Is that blood on the middle of cotton tie?

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F352380787081

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Geraint Grand Master

Geraint

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Dear Dwain.

 

Be thankfullthis one is not yours.  "There are some cracks", the seller says and he is not joking.  Most people would run a mile form the flaws near the ha.  I agree it's quite a nice koshirae, though not blood.   Depending on whether you mean the ito on the tsuka or the ito maki on the saya then one seems to be areas here the same has disintegrated and the tsuka core is exposed and the other is discoloured brocade. 

 

Enjoy your Koto tanto!

 

All the best.

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Blazeaglory Mentor

Blazeaglory

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Dear Dwain.

 

Be thankfullthis one is not yours. "There are some cracks", the seller says and he is not joking. Most people would run a mile form the flaws near the ha. I agree it's quite a nice koshirae, though not blood. Depending on whether you mean the ito on the tsuka or the ito maki on the saya then one seems to be areas here the same has disintegrated and the tsuka core is exposed and the other is discoloured brocade.

 

Enjoy your Koto tanto!

 

All the best.

Thank you!

 

 

 

 

 

That is the listing with the tsuba from the OP.

 

Yes the maki on saya. I notice some disintegrating on the sides close to the metal but I was looking towards the center of maki. But now that you mention it i can see what you're saying. My mind likes to paint a very pretty picture sometimes!

 

I notice this seller puts "there are cracks" on all his listings. I've asked if it has hagire or fatal flaws when I see that "it has cracks" and he says no but you say the long crack close to ha is fatal and would make the sword worthless? I thought maybe it was ware or fukure? Or damage from battle/blocking? I was thinking since it was nanbokucho that maybe the age would allow for some flaws?

 

Thank you for the info! But yes I would not pay that much for that item

 

D

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Blazeaglory Mentor

Blazeaglory

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The term is self explanatory.

 

-S-

I understand but he puts "has some cracks" even on hozon paper swords. Even when I've asked him if the sword has hagire or fatal flaw he says no. So I think he's confusing the term "crack" with a general term for damage.

 

What I'm asking is what made that particular item such a bad deal other than price for the age. He's already mentioned in a PM that there is no hagire. So obviously in this case the term isn't self explanatory. No offense.

 

I can see the damage that was mentioned but is it fatal was another question. I didn't have any questions on the definition of "crack". Just wondering if what is viewed on that sword for its age is fatal and makes it totally worthless or is that up to personal opinion. Also if it was just a large ware or fukure. But that might be getting off topic for this section.

 

Thanks ????

 

D

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Geraint Grand Master

Geraint

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Dear Dwain.

 

Please forgive me if this is basic to you.  Hagire = cracks in the ha, visible from both sides of the blade, usually considered a fatal flaw rendering the sword valueless however I note that Aoi Art has recently offered swords with hagire and given great age or some significance then some people would own it.  What this sword has is some pretty serious forging flaws that appear to be deep and ugly, very few collectors want to look at that.  What degree of flaw you are prepared to live with is up to you, I think I remember a quote which says, "If you can't live with flaws then don't collect Koto."  However there is what might be called some open grain and then there are serious forging flaws.

 

The sword is not in polish and it has no papers and it is coming out of Japan.  Really?

 

As regards age the item is headed Nambokucho, however the blurb a little lower down says something like, "I took a guess but don't hold me to it!"  If you notice the length of the sword is 38.5 but again lower down that really does mean the length of the sword, not the blade.  Blade length is 25.6, just long enough to be a katana.  Now this sword is ubu, unaltered.The question you need to ask yourself is, does this fit what we expect from Nambokucho swords?  Would you expect to find a sword from this period signed like this?  If you don't yet know enough to answer those questions then for pity's sake don't go spending any money on so called Nambokucho swords.  Do a bit of research on the swords of the period.

 

Essentially what you are buying is a koshirae.  Hope that helps a bit.

 

All the best.

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Blazeaglory Mentor

Blazeaglory

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Dear Dwain.

 

Please forgive me if this is basic to you. Hagire = cracks in the ha, visible from both sides of the blade, usually considered a fatal flaw rendering the sword valueless however I note that Aoi Art has recently offered swords with hagire and given great age or some significance then some people would own it. What this sword has is some pretty serious forging flaws that appear to be deep and ugly, very few collectors want to look at that. What degree of flaw you are prepared to live with is up to you, I think I remember a quote which says, "If you can't live with flaws then don't collect Koto." However there is what might be called some open grain and then there are serious forging flaws.

 

The sword is not in polish and it has no papers and it is coming out of Japan. Really?

 

As regards age the item is headed Nambokucho, however the blurb a little lower down says something like, "I took a guess but don't hold me to it!" If you notice the length of the sword is 38.5 but again lower down that really does mean the length of the sword, not the blade. Blade length is 25.6, just long enough to be a katana. Now this sword is ubu, unaltered.The question you need to ask yourself is, does this fit what we expect from Nambokucho swords? Would you expect to find a sword from this period signed like this? If you don't yet know enough to answer those questions then for pity's sake don't go spending any money on so called Nambokucho swords. Do a bit of research on the swords of the period.

 

Essentially what you are buying is a koshirae. Hope that helps a bit.

 

All the best.

Very good. Its little bits of good information such as this that really helps me form opinions. Thank you

 

I agree about length and I did find it a little short so I assumed it was o-suriage. I didn't do much actual research on this specific blade as I was just interested in the tsuba and I always take what is written on eBay with a grain of salt and I basically look at blade and then research for many days and weeks to form somewhat of an opinion. I think you are totally correct

 

I wouldn't buy that sword as I was just bringing some humor into the thread. Well I would buy it but not for that price haha.

 

D

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