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Holes In Tsuba

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#1 dir

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 04:38 PM

In July 2014 there was a thread on udenuki-no-ana - two holes near the edge of the tsuba. A year earlier, there was another thread on the shape of the nakago-ana.

 

I have just acquired the attached tsuba, recently bought in Tokyo, which has a hole at the top and bottom, thus presumably not udenuki-ana. The hitsu-ana are unusually narrow and there is a notch in one side of the seppa. The nakago-ana is of oblong shape rather than pointed.

 

Can anyone shed any light on this tsuba please?

 

In the same post, kissakai posted the other attached image. I have also acquired two tsuba, again bought recently in Tokyo, with the same motif. Is it known what the design is (flowers, pine, snowflakes, or?) please?

 

Thanks and regards

 

David

 

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#2 Peter Bleed

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 06:42 PM

I know what you are paying for this opinion (nothing) so I know what it is worth...

But I would bet that the tsuba you are asking about (the one with the top and bottom holes) is NOT Japanese and certainly not made by anybody who knew and used traditional tsuba makers' skill. I suppose such things may have gotten to Japan, but this looks to me like typical American fakery. For what it is worth...

P


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#3 kissakai

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 08:53 PM

I have to agree witj Peter

Try to look at more tsuba ideally 'in hand'


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#4 dir

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 08:55 AM

Yes, Peter might well be right. I have never seen anything like it before - either in the flesh so to speak or in books. I did actually see it "in hand" before I bought it - but I find it quite interesting and instructive to come across reproductions or fakes from time to time.

 

Kissakai, can you say anything about the motif on the other tsuba (that you originally posted?  



#5 kissakai

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 09:27 AM

Hi Dir

It is from my book The Birmingham Museum and Art Galley from LuLu publishing - Always nice to get in a plug!

 

No 1930M587. Shoami,C1600. Axes, Sun Moon and Stars with a thin strip of shakudo at the side of the 'axes' 

The description is my best guess and could be gourds but the shape is too angular

 

 

Grev


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#6 dir

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:40 AM

I just looked at the BMAG tsuba page - there are 28, but that one is not amongst them! However, I have found your book about the collection, and also another of 50 selected tsuba  - so I will get those.

 

But I was actually referring to the kind of bird feet markings all over the surface of the plate. Do you have an idea of what flower (?) that is?

 

David 



#7 dir

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 06:10 PM

I have just had a reply from Ellliott Long and Robert Haynes and they think my tsuba was made to fit a gunto military sword with the notch being for the clip they have - a kind of security device......



#8 kissakai

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 11:02 PM

Hi David

My first draft showed around 60 Namban tsuba in the museum but in the final draft I had to remove some to keep the price affordable


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#9 JohnTo

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:33 PM

I wonder if odd shaped nagako ana was to fit around the spur on a jitte (sword breaker) or hachiwari (helmet breaker).  I know that jitte don't normally have tsuba, but some Meiji policeman might have quickly added a crude tsuba.

 

Regards, John



#10 dir

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for all the thoughts. Gunto tsuba do often have a notch though not usually in the seppa-dai - although there was an example of this posted on here some years ago I found. But gunto tsuba are usually brass I believe and not this shape.

 

Regards

 

David



#11 dir

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 03:26 PM

I finally got around to ordering kissakai's two books from Lulu. Unfortunately, they didn't arrive (probably because, as a Scotsman, I tried to get away with normal post!). When I eventually "complained" to Lulu and waited a bit longer, they then reprinted the books and shipped them by express mail and they arrived today, two days after being shipped. I have to say that the quality of them both is outstanding and I can't wait to go through them in detail. Thanks for plugging them, Grev!

 

Regards

 

David 



#12 Shugyosha

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 04:04 PM

I wonder if odd shaped nagako ana was to fit around the spur on a jitte (sword breaker) or hachiwari (helmet breaker).  I know that jitte don't normally have tsuba, but some Meiji policeman might have quickly added a crude tsuba.

 

Regards, John

 

Hi John,

 

(On genuine tsuba anyway) it's to take the retaining catch on gunto koshirae. I've got a ko kinko tsuba with a similar modification. 

 

Best,

John


Best regards, John 

Please excuse my spelling mistakes, brevity and ignorance.


#13 Soshin

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Posted 19 December 2018 - 10:52 PM

Hello David,

The holes on the the first item pictured which is a functional tsuba is just part of the decoration they don't serve any function like udenuki-ana.  The second item is not a tsuba.  I not sure what it is likely a modern reproduction of something trying to be sold as a tsuba.  This tsuba has classic udenuki-ana.  Please see attached tsuba for reference.    

   

In July 2014 there was a thread on udenuki-no-ana - two holes near the edge of the tsuba. A year earlier, there was another thread on the shape of the nakago-ana.

 

I have just acquired the attached tsuba, recently bought in Tokyo, which has a hole at the top and bottom, thus presumably not udenuki-ana. The hitsu-ana are unusually narrow and there is a notch in one side of the seppa. The nakago-ana is of oblong shape rather than pointed.

 

Can anyone shed any light on this tsuba please?

 

In the same post, kissakai posted the other attached image. I have also acquired two tsuba, again bought recently in Tokyo, with the same motif. Is it known what the design is (flowers, pine, snowflakes, or?) please?

 

Thanks and regards

 

David

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#14 Blazeaglory

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Posted 24 December 2018 - 02:16 PM

Soshin . I thought you were the thread starter so I answered as if you asked the question...lol I didn't notice the multitude of other posts above yours..so sorry I don't have any info for the OP

To me the top area of holes look like old water or alcohol gourds. The bottom (2 holes) could possibly be the Satsuma type wire holes? I've read that some tsuba, from Satsuma area mostly, made for younger samurai with less control (sayadome). They would attach wire to their saya and twist it through the holes as a way to stop themselves from unsheathing their sword unnecessarily or too quickly in heat of moment. Also they seem to represent the "sun and moon" hence the two different sizes

Is it from the Muromachi era? Satsuma region maybe?
Dwain H.





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