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European Trademark On The Word "nihonto" And Pending For "katana"


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#1 Brian

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 07:43 PM

https://www.facebook...59981264261070/

I think this has huge bearing on the Nihonto community in Europe. A member here and on all the Nihonto pages and groups, had applied for and been granted a trademark for the word Nihonto.
And although he says he only used it to shut down 2 FB pages that looked similar to his, he refuses to state for the record that he won't take action against pages, businesses or groups using Nihonto in their name.
Those who aren't on FB, I can try and copy some of the dialog.
What are the comments and opinions here. Am I worked up about nothing?
 

How is it possible for a swedish person to "own" the right for the word Nihonto for knives,weapons,swords in Europe ??? This upsets me.....He is making trouble for some of my friends becouse of this...

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Gustavo Cures Mastalli The gentleman in question owns the WORD NIHONTO in the class 35 in hole Europe. Here is what class 35 applys to. There are no miss understanding he owns NIHONTO it's registered and Trademarkt.Manage
33399200_2063514493669347_53123438976476
 
 
Mario Pozzi ???? Clarification please
Mike Yamasaki Write to the government entity and complain as a japanese citizen
Thomas Blumi Its figurativ. Means only with his company Logo.....not the word nihonto alone !
Jon Kjetil Munthe No actually he can shut other european sites with the name nihonto down legaly.
Thomas Blumi Jon Kjetil Munthe no only with his logo and the word nihonto together ! Thats figurativ !
Jon Kjetil Munthe He just shut down some swedish iaito/nihonto resturation company site yesterday
Click on info and it applies a ll knives,swords with name nihonto in europe
Mikael Berg He has one figurative application, its still open. But, he has an registrered on the word "Nihonto". Thats propably why he could close our page some day ago, without we even had the opportunity to even know what happened. He also has an open application for the word "Katana", so beware. Me and my colleague Gustavo are the affected ones. Please check the facts in the link https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/...he sells extra long kitchen knives and calls it 'Nihonto' ... Shame.
Richard Bounds It's similar to CS and their trademark on "San Mai" that has three lines beneath it; it needs to be used in conjunction with the logo. It does set up the possibility that he could launch a lawsuit against another company using "nihonto", and it thus makes it more feasible for him to shut out any competitors, but would likely fail in an actual court.
Darryl Aoki This seems somewhat akin to the practice of patent trolling, but even more repellent.

I am vaguely minded of the company who does the Candy Crush mobile phone games, and its efforts to trademark the word "Saga." I had vaguely hoped Iceland would kick their door down and have the descendants of Egill Skallagrimsson (the subject of the Egils Saga) deliver some enlightenment. Possibly with fists.

Gustavo Cures Mastalli https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/...
 
Brian Robinson So please post all of his details. Name, contact, emails etc.
Pretty sure we can spread the word around the internet, make sure no-one shops at any of his businesses.
Also have a few words I'd like to send him.
 
Brian Robinson If there is a way to fight this and get it kicked out, then do a gofundme and we'll get the community to donate.
Also..if this is him, then we need to get Serge to kick him out of Nihonto Club
https://nihontoclub....artin-Einarsson
...See More
 
Martin Einarsson You have no idea what this is all about.
Martin Einarsson A troll factory based on 2 people that copied my nage and logo
Martin Einarsson And now they spread thing and feed you people with things.
Martin Einarsson Dishonest people.

Brian Robinson So educate us then. Because when I hear of someone trademarking our hobby and starting to shut down websites, I get really worked up.
So you haven't taken action against any websites with the word Nihonto? Because if not, then all would seem to be fine. Although I am personally very disturbed by anyone trademarking the word Nihonto. Doesn't take a genius to find all sorts of things wrong with that.
Martin Einarsson Facebook closed their copy cat pages. Not I.
Martin Einarsson Now you spread things that are not true also.
Brian Robinson Explain why you have a European trademark on the word "Nihonto" ?
Martin Einarsson End of comments. I will not accept it. That's it.

Martin Einarsson Read my post. It says it all.
 
Brian Robinson So then Martin Einarsson, you are stating here for the record in public, that you won't take action or trademark action against anyone or any site using the word Nihonto, as long as they do not copy your logo or impersonate your logo/business? Because if that is agreed, then I think we are all ok with this, no problem at all.
Martin Einarsson Have you read my post at all? are you only listening to trolls? What are you.
Martin Einarsson Have you read it? yes or no?
Brian Robinson Have you answered my question, yes or no?
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Tuomas Kääriäinen Looks like a statement that he will continue attacking anyone with Nihonto in the name.
Martin Einarsson Then read again or use google translate
Mikael Berg here is the eu loga, judge for yourself, who is copying who?

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Brian Robinson Yes Martin, I enjoy your page and your posts on the NMB and your Youtube page...all very good. I would like to continue to enjoy them. And if you took action against people copying your logo, then we are all fine with that of course.
I just want to know for the record, since you trademarked the word Nihonto and not just your logo, do you intend ever taking action against people using the word Nihonto, when they are not copying your logo?
Simple question, and then we can all forget about this.
Gustavo Cures Mastalli Here is the site that got shot down....nothing to do with Nihonto Europe
Martin Einarsson And you should know me by now Brian
Martin Einarsson Why would I do such a thing. Ask yourself that.
 
Gustavo Cures Mastalli Were is the copy cat?

Martin Einarsson I tried to talk some sense into the guys but they are like teflon.

Martin Einarsson they don't admit that they copied my logo.
Martin Einarsson Facebook closed their copy cat pages, END OF STORY.
Mikael Berg Our loga was not close to yours as yours in that case are close to the EU loga. Can you seriously say that Facebook closed our page immediatelly due to logas look similar? I think you are lying. You got your "Nihonto" word registrered in maj now, you closed our page now. I have had my main page longer than any of your registrations, cut it, we know you only smoke coming out.

Brian Robinson Martin, was their page for profit? Or educational? If educational, then what would you have against a page that is just for learning and studying Nihonto? What was the goal here?
Mikael Berg Our page is only for hobby, we are interested
Martin Einarsson Sorry Brian, I will not discuss their pages. I have cooperated with them. We know each other. That's it.
Mikael Berg Yes we do some work also and have some money coming in, but its only covering the hobby, we do it for fun
Martin Einarsson If they copy my logo again I will do the same thing. I have posted my statement and I will stand for it.
Gustavo Cures Mastalli There is no getting around Trademarking NIHONTO that's an ethical, and you are applying on KATANA. All this is no joke and is registered.
Brian Robinson Ok..that is between you and them, fair enough. I still would like to see you assure us that you have no intention of taking action against European pages or sites using just the word Nihonto, without a logo like yours. Can you assure us of that?
Martin Einarsson As I said Brian. Read my post.
Brian Robinson You have said nothing of the sort. You seem to be deliberately avoiding saying that.
Mikael Berg The manly thing to do was to contact us before and ask us to change the loga, not cut us in the back. As said i have had Nihonto Iaito Restiration many many years, and Martin was a part of it, but cooperation didnt work and the he started problems

Martin Einarsson Copy my Logo and Name and I will report.
 
Martin Einarsson Damn trolls
Mikael Berg But enough about us, this is bigger then us, The main thing is he owns "Nihonto" in EU and he ahve applied for "Katana"

Mikael Berg Martin, you is the troll, you have face profiles giving yourself good review, what about Kaori kagemusha, you told us yourself you created it. You is a very sneaky person i know now, happy doing no more business with you

Mikael Berg Let see if you keep Kaori in you reviews, five stars
Brian Robinson Ray Singer Ed Marshall et al...can you copy and save this thread please. If this needs to go to NBTHK Europe or court in Europe or a big fundraiser campaign, would like this for the record please.
Gustavo Cures Mastalli Martin you Trademark the word NIHONTO in hole Europe and you don't want people to react?
Brian Robinson Those of you in Europe, here are the procedures for an appeal. Suggest a few of you, including some official bodies and organizations, file an appeal

Can third parties formally oppose an application? If so, on what grounds and what rules and procedure
...See More


Brian Robinson https://www.lexology.../detail.aspx...
The NBTHK European branch may want to seriously consider an appeal.
Mikael Berg Im happy this come out, as i told Jon Kjetil Munthe, if it was only for me and Gustavo Cures Mastalli, we didnt care, we changed our name, thats it. But we think this is much bigger to try to own these words. And many thanks to Valeria Fukuda putting up this post, Domo arigatou
Brian Robinson Do not let the period in which you can appeal go by people!
Lodge one immediately.

Gustavo Cures Mastalli Its already done, and also in Sweden were Mr Einarsson have applied for the word KATANA in a loooooot of classes that would mean you can not even say the word KATANA almost. This will affect klubbs, festivals mm. It's not ethical and that's all I have to say about that.
 

Dan Sharpe This will end badly for you Martin Einarsson. I'm a lawyer here in the UK.


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#2 vajo

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 08:05 PM

Thats all go crazy in this world. The next one will buy a trademark on biological life.

Nestle is buying the water rights in the french alps. And what do the EU. They say Water is not a human right  :laughing:

 

Sorry but, i go headshaking now with loud AC/DC and drink some beer, because I'm living on the planet of the aps.

If this post don't fit Brian please delete it. But I'm very angry now of so much  :bang: sorry...

 

The use of the european logo for any kinds of buissiness needs a permission from the EU

 

Council of Europe, Directorate General of Legal Affairs F-67075 Strasbourg Cedex; Tel. (33) 388 41 20 00; fax (33) 388 41 20 52; E-Mail: legal.advice@coe.int oder Europäische Kommission, Abteilung ''Coordination I'', rue de la Loi 200, B-1049 Bruxelles, E-Mail: embl@ec.europa.eu



#3 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 09:54 PM

 

 

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#4 Stephen

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 11:03 PM

Me thinks a boycott of Nihonto Europe is in order!##//=/%×%*."#*€&!×
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#5 CSM101

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 11:11 PM

I would say: "Let´s wait and see!"

 

Just because I am one of the first victims in a case like that.

 

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#6 Vermithrax16

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 12:02 AM

Bizarre and not being versed in EU law at all, I can't really say anything about it. But on balance, seems a silly trick to try and use Nihonto as a trademark.


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#7 Gasam

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 12:06 AM

Well I have had some wine but still: wrong. just wrong. One could just as easily have applied for a trademark on the term "Statue" or "Painting". Noone would have allowed that....

 

Just my 2c.

 

Edit to correct typos.


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#8 raymondsinger

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 12:13 AM

I posted a suggestion in that Facebook thread that they use the kanji for Nihonto to circumvent the copyright issue, and sent over a quick-and-dirty logo suggestion. Hopefully that gets them going for the immediate term until this copyright issue is permanently resolved...
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#9 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:29 AM

Martin seems like a reasonable fellow and active member in furthering the research and appreciation of Nihonto, let's not ready the tar and feathers too quickly.
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John


#10 Surfson

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:37 AM

He's in big trouble now.  I have copyrighted the word "Einarsson".   :thumbsup:  Just ignore the pinhead.  I do not believe that he can protect that "copyright" since it is a common word.  Just my opinion.  His logo, whatever it is, may well be protectable.  And if he were able to prevent all use of the word in a name, he would just incur the wrath of the entire sword collecting community!


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#11 raymondsinger

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:44 AM

FWIW, I do not think that the logos are close enough that one could really claim their logo was 'stolen'. And copyrighting 'nihonto' is a very extreme response to this perceived brand theft.
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#12 Surfson

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:45 AM

I have not seen the copycats, but agree wholeheartedly Ray.  


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#13 Stephen

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:45 AM

Sorry John fire under the cauldron.
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#14 Fuuten

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:52 AM

After looking through that topic i must say: wow whatever he was trying to do; it backfired big time.


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#15 Stephen

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 02:28 AM

In fact Nihonto Sweden was there first...read long post i posted in other thread
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#16 brannow

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 05:39 AM

I think it could easily be over turned if an attorney in the EU was up to challenging the trademark.   In fact Fred Weissberg could probably challenge it and get it overturned as his web site has been online and trademarked Probably as long  as this guy has been alive.


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#17 Gakusee

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:05 AM

The U.K. seems quite sensible about this matter and according to this helpful article below, nihonto could not be registered as it is understood by the nihonto community to mean something particular to that community. Please see below.
Could someone see if there is something similar for the EU legislative framework?

The following article by solicitor Peter Stevens was first published in Volume 6, Issue 1 of the Intellectual Property and Entertainment Law newsletter of the International Bar Association (September 2014)

It is well known that a trade mark must be of distinctive character, in order to distinguish the origin of the goods or services of its proprietor from those of others. In other words, one cannot register a trade mark which consists exclusively of signs or indications which are purely descriptive, because it would not be fair to enable anyone to obtain an effective monopoly in the use of common words which simply describe the kind, quality, quantity, intended purpose, value, geographical origin or time of production of the goods or services in question without identifying them as the goods or services of the proprietor of the mark in question.

But what is the position with foreign words or expressions, which are purely descriptive in their own languages? Can these be registered as trade marks in the UK?

The UK Intellectual Property Office has published guidance on this question, which summarises the practice as follows:

1. The key question is whether the mark is likely to be understood by the relevant UK traders, or by the average UK consumer of the goods or services in question, as a description of one of their characteristics, or as otherwise descriptive of such goods or services. If so, it will not be registrable as a UK trade mark. If not, it will.

2. The relevant UK traders are those who trade in the goods or services in question. For example, a pharmacist may recognise the descriptive meaning of a Latin name, and a wine trader may have a better understanding of French wine descriptions, so Latin words for pharmaceutical products and French descriptions of wine would not be registrable as UK trade marks for these products, even if the average UK consumer of those products would not understand what they mean.

3. French, Spanish, Italian and German are the most widely understood European languages in the UK, but UK consumers are not assumed to be fluent in any of these languages. However, most of them will have some appreciation of the more common words, particularly common French words, in the relevant market. So for example, it will be assumed that the average UK customer for dog biscuits would understand that "BISCUITS POUR CHIEN" means dog biscuits, and that traders in and/or average UK consumers of cosmetics will be accustomed to seeing French descriptions on the packaging of cosmetics, and so will know that "lait" means milk and be able to guess that "LAIT HYDRATANT" means something like moisturising milk. Accordingly, these terms would be recognised as purely descriptive and not registrable in the UK.

4. The average UK consumer may well be familiar with the non-English name of a product or service, or the local name for its geographical origin. For example, the average English speaking consumer of wine would know that "BOURGOGNE" is the French word for the region we know as Burgundy, and that "VIN ROUGE" means "red wine", and the average UK consumer of olive oil is likely to know that "TOSCANO" is the Italian word for the region we know as Tuscany. Consequently, "BOURGOGNE" and "VIN ROUGE" would not be registrable in the UK for wine, and "TOSCANO" would not be registrable for olive oil.

5. The more closely a non-English descriptive word resembles its English equivalent, the more likely it is to be understood as descriptive by the average UK consumer. So for example, the Italian word ‘CAFFE’ will not be registrable as a UK trade mark for coffee because the average UK consumer of coffee would be likely to guess that it simply means ‘coffee’.

6. Non-English words are more likely to be understood in the UK as descriptive words in the case of goods than of services so, with some exceptions, non-English words are more likely to be registrable for services than for goods, even where their meaning is reasonably well understood by the relevant average UK consumer. For example, the average UK caterer may know that "PRET A MANGER" means "ready to eat", but he is unlikely to use this term in a purely descriptive sense, whereas someone in the clothing trade would use the term "PRET A PORTER" to describe ready to wear clothing. Accordingly, "PRET A MANGER" would be registrable for catering services, when "PRET A PORTER" would not be registrable for clothing products.

7. The Registry will take into account whether the average consumer or end user of the particular goods in question is more likely to understand the language of the mark than the average UK consumer. For example, I understand that yashmak sellers will commonly market them under the mark "خ" ("imar" in Arabic, or “yashmak” in English). Most English people do not understand Arabic, but yashmaks are primarily worn by the Arabic speaking community so the relevant average UK consumer for yashmaks will understand the mark "خ" as being descriptive of yashmaks and the mark "خ" will not be registrable in the UK for such products.

8. Once a foreign word has become generic in the relevant trade (by customers or traders) it will be regarded as purely descriptive and so not be registrable. For example, even if these terms might have been registrable in the past, "PANINI" is now widely recognised as the Italian word for sandwiches, and "BAGUETTE" is similarly understood to refer to French stick loaves of bread, so neither would be registrable now.

The proprietor of a registered trade mark is entitled to prevent all third parties from using in the course of trade, without his consent:

(a) any sign which is identical to the trade mark in relation to goods or services which are identical to those for which the trade mark is registered, and

(b ) any sign which is:

(i) identical to the mark in relation to goods or services which are similar to those for which the mark is registered; or

(ii) similar to the mark in relation to goods or services which are identical or similar to those for which the mark is registered;

if, as a result, there exists a likelihood of confusion on the part of the public, which includes the likelihood of association between the sign and the trade mark.

In 2007, Pho Holding Limited, a British company which traded under the name “Pho Vietnamese café, registered the mark “pho” for, among other things, restaurants, cafes and catering services. Pho is the name of a Vietnamese soup made of beef noodles. Vietnamese dishes may be better known in France than in the UK, and it is possible that they will become better known in the in the UK in the future. However, it is clear that, in 2007, the word “pho” was not widely recognised in the UK as the description of a Vietnamese soup. In October 2013, Pho Holding Limited was able to force the owner of a small Vietnamese restaurant in London, which had traded for some years as “Mo Pho” to change its name. The latter agreed to its demands because it would have cost much more to challenge its trade mark registration and counterclaim for its revocation.

Similarly, a trade mark cannot be registered if it is:

(a) identical to an existing registered trade mark covering identical goods or services; or

(b ) either:

(i) identical to an existing registered trade mark covering similar goods or services; or

(ii) similar to an existing registered trade mark covering identical or similar goods or services;

and, as a result, there exists a likelihood of confusion on the part of the public, which includes the likelihood of association between the sign and the trade mark.

Accordingly, a related question is whether the owner of an English trade mark can prevent the registration of another mark comprising foreign words which are visually or phonetically similar, whether the meaning is similar or different.

In 2009, the English company The Hut.com Limited applied to register the mark “HUT” as an EU community trade mark for retail services related to the sale of various products. Intersport France opposed the application, because it had already registered “LA HUTTE” in France in respect of similar products.

The European Court of Justice decided in January 2014 that the average consumer of the goods or services in question was the average consumer in France, where the existing mark had been registered, and that an assessment of whether the visual, phonetic or conceptual similarity of the two marks created a likelihood of confusion had to be based on the overall impression given by the marks.

There is no presumption that the vocabulary of a foreign language, except for very basic words, will be understood in another country, and a substantial part of the relevant public in France would not know the English word “hut” as this has no meaning in French. However, given their imperfect knowledge and command of English words which are not part of the basic vocabulary, a not insignificant part of the French public might be expected to pronounce the English word “hut” in the same way as the French word “hutte” and, without knowing its meaning, might correctly guess that it would be translated in French as “hutte”. The terms “la” and “the” are phonetically different, but “the” is part of the basic English vocabulary, and the average French consumer would understand that it means the same as “le” or “la” in French. In any event, when assessing the overall impact of a mark, the definite article is usually of lesser importance.

Accordingly, the marks “HUT” and “LA HUTTE” were considered identical conceptually and similar phonetically and, to a lesser extent, visually. Based on an overall impression of these similarities, and taking into account the similarity of the goods and services in question, the European Court decided that the risk of confusion on the part of the French general public could not be excluded, so the application to register “HUT” as an EU Community Trade Mark had to be refused.

Peter Stevens

TWM Solicitors LLP
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#18 Brian

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:21 AM

Martin seems like a reasonable fellow and active member in furthering the research and appreciation of Nihonto, let's not ready the tar and feathers too quickly.

 

So explain to me why he didn't just trademark his logo, but the actual word "Nihonto"?
And THEN....to put in a pending application for the word "Katana"??

Sorry, but I can see no motive here besides extortion and profit.
And I really hope the Europeans are not just going to go "Ho-Hum" and hope someone else deals with this. IMHO, the NBTHK Europe needs to get involved with the authorities.
As do ANY dealers in Europe.
He refuses to state that he will not go after anyone with Nihonto in their name. He dances around the subject evasively. Martin...I'm sure you are reading this. So why don't you post and reassure everyone that you have no intention of making trouble for anyone else besides those who are copying or stealing your logo? Also..explain why you are trying to trademark the word katana?
I suggest a complete boycott of his business is in order failing any reasonable explanation of the above. And if there is no explanation, then the membership here will be terminated too.

Brian
 


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#19 paulb

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:54 AM

Going through Michael's detailed quote of Uk law I think the most notable point is:

 

"Once a foreign word has become generic in the relevant trade (by customers or traders) it will be regarded as purely descriptive and so not be registrable. For example, even if these terms might have been registrable in the past, "PANINI" is now widely recognised as the Italian word for sandwiches, and "BAGUETTE" is similarly understood to refer to French stick loaves of bread, so neither would be registrable now."

 

Nihonto is without question a generic term and therefore should not be registerable in UK law if I understand the point correctly. The same argument applies to katana.

This would seem common sense and I admit to being very surprised that this application has got as far as it has. Obviously copyright and patent laws in Sweden must be very different to those in the UK.

As to Martin's motives and intentions only he can tell us. Unfortunately if he chooses not to then people will draw their own conclusions and in such cases these are rarely positive.

Regardless of motive this has huge potential to backfire on the originator and it would be prudent to reconsider before taking this any further.


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#20 Gakusee

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:47 AM

Actually I urge our users to visit this link:
https://euipo.europa...100 100/Nihonto

You will see that there are 4 registrations and Martin’s are only two of the 4 and figurative on that, ie nihonto in a pictorial figure and the capitalised word Nihonto.

But the top application worries me even more as it seems to have protected the simple word “nihonto” - not even capitalised.
The top one seems to be a Polish or Czech firm....
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#21 DaveT

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:50 AM

Im happy to contribute to a paypal fund to have this trademark challenged as Passing Off

Could one of the Tokens managed this?
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#22 Brian

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:18 AM

Actually I urge our users to visit this link:
https://euipo.europa...100 100/Nihonto

You will see that there are 4 registrations and Martin’s are only two of the 4 and figurative on that, ie nihonto in a pictorial figure and the capitalised word Nihonto.

But the top application worries me even more as it seems to have protected the simple word “nihonto” - not even capitalised.
The top one seems to be a Polish or Czech firm....

Michael,
The difference is that the Czech guy has registered the word for use on:

  • 18 Umbrellas, Rucksacks, Bags, Hunting bags.
  • 20 Tourist folding chairs, Tourist  armchairs, Portable beds, Deckchairs.
  • 25 Clothing, Headgear, Footwear, Jackets, Pants (Am), Blouses, Shirts, Caps, Gloves, Capes, Pullovers, Wellingtons, Snow boots, Ice boots, Waders, Underwear, Vests, Swimming trunks, Swimming costumes, Fishing suits, Waterproof clothing.
  • 28 Reels for fishing, Lines for fishing, Braided lines, Floats for fishing, hooks, Fishing rods, Fishing spinners and spoons, Fishing wobblers, Fishing leaders, Fishing accessories, Fishing bags.

Our friend Martin has registered the word for the following uses:

35 Auctioneering services; Online retail services for downloadable and pre-recorded music and movies; Retail services for works of art provided by art galleries; Retail services in relation to art materials; Retail services in relation to cutlery; Retail services in relation to metal hardware; Retail services in relation to sporting equipment; Retail services in relation to weapons; Retail services in relation to sporting articles; Retail services in relation to works of art; Retail services relating to sporting goods; Retail services relating to kitchen knives; Wholesale services in relation to art materials; Wholesale services in relation to metal hardware; Wholesale services in relation to weapons; Wholesale services in relation to works of art; Wholesale services in relation to kitchen knives; Wholesale services in relation to sporting articles; Wholesale services in relation to sporting equipment; Wholesale services relating to sporting goods.

So he is trying to monopolize the use for retail services and art galleries..anything to do with the sales of Japanese swords.
 

And he is trying to register the word katana for the following purposes:

  • 8 Edged and blunt weapons; Food preparation implements, kitchen knives and cutting implements, cutlery for eating; Food preparation implements, kitchen knives and cutlery.
  • 35 Auctioneering services; Online retail services for downloadable and pre-recorded music and movies; Retail services in relation to cutlery; Retail services in relation to art materials; Retail services in relation to metal hardware; Retail services in relation to sporting equipment; Retail services in relation to weapons; Retail services in relation to works of art; Retail services in relation to sporting articles; Retail services relating to kitchen knives; Retail services relating to sporting goods; Wholesale services in relation to metal hardware; Wholesale services in relation to art materials; Wholesale services in relation to weapons; Wholesale services in relation to works of art; Wholesale services in relation to sporting articles; Wholesale services in relation to sporting equipment; Wholesale services in relation to kitchen knives; Wholesale services relating to sporting goods.
  • 37 Maintenance and restoration of works of art; Maintenance, servicing and repair of weapon systems; Repair of sports equipment; Restoration of works of art.

Scumbag.


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#23 Brian

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:26 AM

https://euipo.europa...l/en/opposition

 

If someone wants to draft an opposition against the Nihonto one and the Katana one, we can do a fundraiser here to fund it.


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#24 Stephen

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 11:33 AM

Count me in.
"This to shall pass"
USMC DEC 63 APR 73

#25 DaveT

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 12:44 PM

Count me in 100%.

If one is allowed to do this then we will see TM on Tosogu, tsuba, and even Katchu.
We have a very large community and pulling together as a whole is warranted. 


David Thatcher - Katchushi Koubou UK       http://yoroi.uk

Professional Conservator and Restorer of Japanese Armour


#26 Shugyosha

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:27 PM

Following Michael's suggestion, I've had a quick Google.

 

I qualified to practice as a solicitor in the UK many moons ago but it's been a long, long time since I quit the profession, but I can categorically state the following: I know nothing of trademark law and, as with nihonto, it's dangerous to draw firm conclusions from a limited knowledge base. However, here's some stuff that may be relevant:

 

 

DIRECTIVE (EU) 2015/2436 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 16 December 2015 to approximate the laws of the Member States relating to trade marks

 

https://eur-lex.euro...ELEX:32015L2436

 

Chapter 2, Section 2, Article 4 deals with grounds for refusal or the invalidity of a trademark or a declaration that it is invalid and this is pretty much mirrored in Article 14 which limits the effects of a trademark. 

 

The grounds relevant to this situation appear to be that the use of the word "nihonto" and "katana" are indications used within the Japanese antiques market to designate "the kind, quality, intended purpose...geographical origin...or other characteristics of the goods or services"; and/ or "have become customary in the current language or in the bona fide and established practices of the trade".

 

 

 

I would suggest that you really need a proper lawyer to confirm this as I've no idea of how this legislation is interpreted practically, but it looks at first blush like this isn't an entirely hopeless situation and Mr Einarsson's ability to enforce his "trademarks" isn't beyond question.

 

Best,

John


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Best regards, John 

Please excuse my spelling mistakes, brevity and ignorance.


#27 Gakusee

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:08 PM

John

I do not think we shall ever raise the funds to afford a lawyer for this. We probably shall have to rely on volunteers among us.

In parallel to you, I also looked up the rules of EUIPO and reached a similar conclusion relying on a slightly different framework.

Could you combine your thinking and mine so that an application can be put together?

A notice/application needs to be filed within 3 months of TM application I think unless it is an error in the first place. I think one needs to push for that argument - i.e. invalidity of the grant due to error of judgement of the decision making panel.

Anyway, a notice of opposition could go along the lines of (if the assumption is that both TM applications can be revoked or just for the uppercase Nihonto one):



“We hereby apply for revocation of trademarks numbered XXX, applied for by XXX for the use of the words “nihonto” and “Nihonto”, whether capitalised or non-capitalised on the grounds of:

1. An error has been made by EUIPO when admitting those two trademarks, and EUIPO should have refused those two trademarks as explained in point 2 below.

Therefore we cite procedure “Absolute Ground for Refusal - General Principles” and Part A section 6 of the General Rules for amending an error made by EUIPO.


2. It suffices for a refusal if the trade mark is descriptive, or lacks distinctive character, in any one of the official languages of the EU (judgment of 03/07/2013, T-236/12, Neo, EU:T:2013:343, § 57).

The relevant rules are enshrined in articles 7(1) and 7(2) EUTMR.

Since in English, which is one of the official languages of the EU, “nihonto” is understood to merely mean “Japanese sword” (where the Japanese word “nihon” means “Japanese” in English and the Japanese word “to” means “sword” in English), especially among scholars, collectors, auctioneers, hobbyists associated with Japanese swords or “nihonto”.
Michael S.

#28 Surfson

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:38 PM

Has the guy ever actually succeeded in stopping anybody from using the word Nihonto in the name of a website?  


Robert S.

#29 Stephen

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:37 PM

yes Robert

 

https://www.facebook...p_comment_reply

 

bottom post

 

Mikael Berg  i was the guy affected by him closing our page. i had Nihonto iaito restoration many years, he closed our subsite "nihonto sweden"


"This to shall pass"
USMC DEC 63 APR 73

#30 Surfson

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:54 PM

Mikael Berg needs to threaten to file a wrongful action suit against him.  Having said that, Mikael's logo should not look like his, with the Swedish flag colors and circle of stars.  Do we have any european lawyers on the board willing to write him a "cease and desist" letter?  


Robert S.




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