Jump to content

Please Identify The Sword Gunto Ww2

antiquegallery
 Share

Recommended Posts

antiquegallery Enthusiast

antiquegallery

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The stamp below the star is the 'Gifu' stamp, which displays the first character of Gifu (岐). On the reverse is the date '10th Month (October) 19th year of Showa (1944)' (昭和十九年十月) and above that is the seki stamp (関).

Thank you. here is a photo of the blade

post-2472-0-72384700-1525956243_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-29269900-1525956252_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-11652700-1525956261_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-47056900-1525956269_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-31649500-1525956278_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-63001100-1525956288_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-60051900-1525956378_thumb.jpg

post-2472-0-98419900-1525956422_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
vajo Grand Master

vajo

Posted
Posted

That star stamp looks a little strange on the pictures. I' miss the sharp lines. But it could come from the pictures.

 

For me it doesn't look like the Nakata Kanehide mei. Maybe another Kanehide...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

Posted
Posted

I would be interested to hear from David or George Trotter on this one. While the Gifu and Seki stamps look legit, the star stamp is poor. The kanji for date and name look decent, but I've never seen a gendatio made for a gunto with the second hole in the nakago! The blade has the look of a showato, but maybe that's just due to use and out of polish condition?

 

The tsuba and seppa are poor quality for such a gendaito blade. This is an odd-ball to me. I'm puzzled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
vajo Grand Master

vajo

Posted
Posted

There is a Seki Kanehide (Showa-to)

兼英 (Kanehide)

兼松 晃 Kenmatsu Akira (Real name)

 

in this case the star stamp is not legit.

 

I searched through all my books and writings. There is only one RJT Kanehide (Nakata). And the mei is totaly different from this Kanehide.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Edward S Explorer

Edward S

Posted
Posted

To me it’s showato rather than gendiato all the way.

 

My reasoning for this is I think the star stamp is not original to the sword but looks to be a later addition and appears to be stamped over a sho or Gifu stamp. This leads me to the conclusion that it is by the Seki Kanehide and is showato, why someone attempted to ‘up-scale’ the blade is anyone’s guess.

 

Although not a traditionally made blade, It is still a nice find and worthy of preservation.

 

Edward S

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vajo Grand Master

vajo

Posted
Posted

Added star. Years ago JSS/US Ran a bit on star stamp blades. There was a rash of dodgy stamps on ebay. This looks like one.

Thanks for the info Stephen. It is the first faked star stamp i see.

 

Btw. Artem. Your website looks very nice. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
george trotter Grand Master

george trotter

Posted
Posted

OH, I see my name mentioned...was talking to Bruce a while back should have looked on here first. Maybe I can help....

 

The mei is KIKUHIDE who is Murayama Kikuo who was registered as a Seki swordsmith on 17/ Feb. 1943.

He is not listed anywhere as an RJT so I too think the star is a "post-war" addition.

Since the blade has the "GI" mark for Gifu and has 2 ana, I sort of feel that it has the characteristics of the type of showato that would have been normally mounted in the "cheaper" steel scabbard "Type O / Contingency standard" type mounts, but maybe was put into Type 98 instead. Anyway, IMHO it is an ordinary Seki gunto with a questionable star stamp. just my opinion (based on years of observation and a fair knowledge of the Japanese RJT records).

regards,

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vajo Grand Master

vajo

Posted
Posted

Artem, a little advise from my personal opinion. Never touch a Japanese blade with bare hands, only on the nakago. I know from german military collectors that they use no cloves handling old european swords, because a black patina on the blade is a sign of time. But there is a big difference between the two (sword) worlds  :) and don't forget oiling it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
antiquegallery Enthusiast

antiquegallery

Posted
  • Author
Posted

thanks for the advice. I every week I lubricate my Japanese swords with oil of carnations. I try not to take swords with my hands. This sword took exceptionally (and immediately wiped with oil)

Artem, a little advise from my personal opinion. Never touch a Japanese blade with bare hands, only on the nakago. I know from german military collectors that they use no cloves handling old european swords, because a black patina on the blade is a sign of time. But there is a big difference between the two (sword) worlds  :) and don't forget oiling it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 4 years later...
Bruce Pennington Grand Master

Bruce Pennington

Posted
Posted
On 11/16/2022 at 2:29 PM, Kiipu said:

Cross-Reference

Bruce Pennington the name is Kikuhide

Thanks Thomas.  What a mess!

 

I have many star-stamped blades with Na, small Seki, Ho, Ko, and numbers; but I don't see an on file with a Gifu.  I agree with the above observation that the star is stamped over something, but I have a hard time seeing it as Showa.  I have no Showa stamped blades in 1944.  I suspect it was a poorly struck Gifu and the properly struck stamp was then added below it.  Then there is a light star, which looks to have been poorly struck, too, with the deep star cut, finally, on top. 

 

I don't know what to think about the star.  I agree with Chris, it's not what we normally see, and I think I even see an extended stroke on the left point, as if it was chiseled in, stroke by stroke.  Yet there is age/grime in the star that matches the black grime in the intact Gifu stamp.  I suppose one idea is that a shop owner, during WWII, faked the star and put the blade in Type 98 mounts to crank up the asking price for the sword!

 

Kikuhide is not on the RJT list, yet we already have a couple other names with good stars that cannot be found on the lists either.

 

I'm filing it under the Gifu + Seki stamped blades on the chart, and won't list it under the star-stamped blades.  A side note: I do have a few RJT qualified smiths' blades with both the Gifu and small Seki stamps, but none of them have an added star.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
pgriffin Newbie

pgriffin

Posted
Posted

 My boss has this sword. He asked me to find information on it. I.  Went to Japan once and so I guess that makes me the person to come to for all things Japanese. I believe the first image to be arsenal stamps? and the second image to be a date? Can anyone confirm what this says and what type it is? I'm assuming WW2 era 

Screenshot_20230123-053439.png

FB_IMG_1674497759609.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
John C Mentor

John C

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, pgriffin said:

He asked me to find information on it

Paul:

Without seeing the sword in hand, this is just conjecture. But the signature does not look like the Showa smith Kanehide. The pic below is his actual signature. There should be a star stamp and either a two seki or two nagoya stamps on the blade as well. Now, he also made non-traditional blades as well so the star stamp may be missing. But in general, I would say this is not a traditional (gendaito) kanehide sword.

John C.

kanehide mei.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kiipu Veteran

Kiipu

Posted
Posted

Hi Paul, welcome to the forum.

 

Are there any other markings other than what you show?  Kikuhide was a swordsmith located in Seki, Gifu Prefecture, and maybe Mal might know more.

菊秀 = Kikuhide (This is the name of the swordsmith).

昭和十九年五月 = May 1944 (Date the blade was made).

@mecox

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mecox Mentor

mecox

Posted
Posted

Paul & Thomas, yes KIKUHIDE (菊秀), from Gifu, real name Murayama Kikuo (村山菊雄), born September 21 1905 (Meiji38), died April 8  1952 (age 47). Registered as a Seki swordsmith Showa 18 (1943) Feb 17 living at Seki-machi, Yoshida-cho.   

The sword is May, 1944 (any stamps on it?).  He does not appear to have produced much.  But the above reference from Bruce (Nove 2022) appears to show a blade stamped with star and Gifu on late war blade, but he is not in Rikugun Jumei Tosho lists.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...