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Wakizashi, Kanetsune From Mino

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#1 Lukas

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 12:56 PM

Hello everyone!

This is my first post, so please forgive me if I make any newbie mistakes.

Well, I'm basically in need of some information regarding a wakizashi I might be purchasing. But I'm quite the new when it comes to nihonto and in desperate need of advice and knowledge.

The wakizashi is 20 inches long and is in great condition.
It is sign KANETSUNE from Mino and it's a Unokubi Zukuri (I believe).

The seller has a good reputation and has several with papers as well.

According to the seller :
"What I know about it is what I've learned from other (knowledgeable) forums that it's Mino-Seki Kanetsune and the signature is genuine, it's going to be around the Oei period (1394-1428). No paper but is in a very nice condition with the attachment belonging to the blade and also has kogatana / kozuka (small knife)"

Is the signature real?
Would it be a good investment and what should I pay? (Seller is asking for 1800 usd).

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Lukas G.

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#2 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:14 PM

That's a nice package IMO, at 1800usd with papers you aren't doing too bad. I would suspect that it is a Shinto Kanetsune rather than a Koto smith.


John


#3 Lukas

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:36 PM

Thanks for the reply!

Sorry English is my 3rd. Meant that It has no papers, but the sellers has several others with papers. so I view him as a genuine person.
I wrote to a supposed expert, and he believed it was a forgery (signature).
Kinda got me a little bit weary.

Thanks for replying.

#4 ROKUJURO

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:43 PM

Lukas,

it may well be that the MEI (signature) is not from the "real" smith KANETSUNE, but that does not mean that the sword is bad or a fake! It is probably indeed a SHINTO blade, but a nice one, and it is in MINO style.


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Regards,

Jean C.

#5 NihontoCollector

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:49 PM

Hello Lukas,

 

that is a solid package. 1800 USD is fine. The blade is in good condition / polish and definately MIno. BUT I do not think this blade is Oei but a later generation Kanetsune.

 

The 1st generation Kanetsune is one of the best Mino smithes and his signature looks different. This is probably good for a later generation Kanetsune


Luis


#6 Shugyosha

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:49 PM

Hi Lukas,

 

I'm with John - I doubt that this is a 600 year old sword and would have said later than 1600 based on the condition of the tang and the depth of the ha machi. The signature isn't necessarily a forgery, as there are a number of smiths using this name over a long period of time, however, if a later sword I would have expected more than a two character signature as that was more the vogue in shinto times so I would treat it as questionable.

 

Also, I find it a bit odd that the seller should attribute it to the first generation and oldest rather than any of the others if not as bait to trap the unwary . 

 

Ultimately, if there are doubts, keep your money - there are lots of swords out there where it's not necessary to second guess the signature.

 

Best,

Another John

 

Sorry, the other guys got in ahead of me! 


Best regards, John 

Please excuse my spelling mistakes, brevity and ignorance.


#7 Lukas

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:00 PM

Great thanks for your input!
Ok, so most likely a Shinto blade.
I had one guy say that the signature looked very deep, which was obviously not a good thing. But he, as well, confirmed that it was a newer nihonto.

What should I be paying if I were to purchase it?

Any and all Info appreciate.

Thanks guys!

#8 NihontoCollector

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:18 PM

Yes, Shinto is more likely ... too deep ... all too crisp. Does not look like an early Muromachi tang.

 

From the sellers perspective you should be paying atleast 1800 USD ... from your perspectove you will want to pay as little as possible. If I were you and if I wanted  to buy it I would throw in 1500 USD and see what happens ;) You just have to ask yourself if you want to buy it as it as matter of personal tase. I can not see much of the Koshirae. The Kozuka looks okay. The Tsuba is nothing special. I can not comment on the Menuki and F/K.

 

The Horimono work is not bad and the polish remain in old but nice condition, too and I see no obviosu problems.


Luis


#9 NihontoCollector

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:21 PM

Okay, Fuchi Kashira & Menuki do not look too nice ... but hard to say from these images. Not that much value in the mounts ... but you have to see  if you like the blade. That is your personal decission. John is right that the machi is very deep. could also have Machi Okuri ...


Luis


#10 Lukas

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:45 PM

Thank you for all the great wisdom and help. Wonderful.
Now I'm really thinking ;) weary, as I obviously should be.
well I do like the blade but not 1800-like. I was thinking about taking the advice and low ball him see what happens.

Thanks again, hope everyone has a great weekend.

Lukas.

#11 NihontoCollector

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:22 PM

Just curious but what low ball offer do you have in mind?


Luis


#12 BulletSprinkler

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:48 PM

Buy the sword not the sig

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#13 mfarrar

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 06:06 PM

Hi Lukas, have you looked at the sale section on here? For a little more there is a signed shinto wak in good polish and decent koshirea. Especially for your first sword I would recommend buying off here as your unlikely to be sold something that is misrepresented. Like has already been said with the nakago and hamachi it is clearly not as old as oei.

#14 Lukas

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:19 PM

Hello everyone,

I apologize for my absence in the thread.
Regarding the waki: the seller and I went back and forth, as I presented the new information I had gathered.
Negotiations kinda stopped, but yesterday he contacted me with a new offer. 1500 usd. Might take it, we live close so shipping will be very cheap.

Should o grab it? I'm thinking about it.

I was gonna wait and try to purchase it for 1200 and also tell him that he can keep the kozuka/kogatana that he keep speaking of. Perhaps a tad too much.

I hope everyone hade a great and long weekend.

All the best,
Lukas

#15 Brian

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:28 PM

Leaving that kozuka/kogatana would be a big mistake. It is very nice, worth more than the difference in price, and belongs with the koshirae.

I would just take the package at $1500 if I were you, before someone else does.
 


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#16 Lukas

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:47 PM

Okay, great.

Thanks a lot for the advice, Brian.

#17 Geraint

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 03:55 PM

Dear Lukas.

 

I have to agree with Brian.  This is a nice, mounted sword,in relatively good condition with some interesting features.  What's not to like?  OK, I know it has no papers but for this sword I don't think that matters.  If was my choice I'd buy it.

 

Let us know what happens.

 

All the best.


Geraint

#18 J Reid

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 12:37 AM

Buy it buy it
Josh Reid

#19 Ed

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 04:26 AM

Geez, what are people looking for today, That is a steal.


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#20 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:41 AM

The want the sellers shirt off their back these days!
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John






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