Converted Fittings: Any Way Back?

[skipskip25]

Just wondering if anyone has had success in restoring fittings being converted to jewerly? Such as menuki filled with silver or kozuka with riveted blades?

[TETSUGENDO]

Please post some photos so we can SEE the issues you query.  Board rules ask those using this board to add a first name and last initial to the bottom of your post, please do so.  Thanks.

 

-StevenK

[skipskip25]

Sorry I'm new to this. I thought my info would show up in the post. My question is regarding some items that are coming up for auction. I'm trying to find out if the silver backing on this bracelet can be removed as well as the rivets and silver blades on these fruit knives.  Any info would be helpful ( cost,craftsmen,time frame). The bracelet would clash with my style and my kids would destroy the knives  Thank you 

Pete R.

[TETSUGENDO]

Pete,

 

All your maladies can be cured by a competant restorer/conservator, unfortunately there are very few in this field.  Some frequent this forum, perhaps someone will step forward.  The time involved to do this work is not going to be inexpensive, an approximate cost I would not venture to guess. As to the pieces and their relative merit, that is a matter for you and your restorer. My personal opinion won't move your decision as well as costs and the marketplace will.  Now, close your eyes , click your heals together, and repeat three times .....Ford Hallam.  If you are fortunate he, or one of his minions, will make themselves known to you. Hope this is helpful.

 

-StevenK

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

 

 

 My question is regarding some items that are coming up for auction. I'm trying to find out if the silver backing on this bracelet can be removed as well as the rivets and silver blades on these fruit knives.  Any info would be helpful ( cost,craftsmen,time frame). 

Pete R.

 

 

The short answer is probably yes. In the case of orphan menuki, even very good pieces, the cost of a proper restoration would quickly eat up the final value in most cases and then you'd still end up with an orphan. It would have to be something exceptional imo. As for kozuka, the cost of restoration vs final value might be there for restoring a good piece. In the case of these pieces, at least for me, it's difficult to say/judge without seeing them in hand. Right now they're kitchen ware.

[vajo]

Nice menuki "schariwari".

These are one pieces. I would leave it as it is.

[skipskip25]

Thank you all for your information and help.Really appreciate it

[TosoguCz]

Sorry I'm new to this. I thought my info would show up in the post. My question is regarding some items that are coming up for auction. I'm trying to find out if the silver backing on this bracelet can be removed as well as the rivets and silver blades on these fruit knives.  Any info would be helpful ( cost,craftsmen,time frame). The bracelet would clash with my style and my kids would destroy the knives  Thank you 

Pete R.

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Hello, as for the menuki depends on a method used for assembly with the back sheet. But single menuki are rarely sellable for a reasonable price, At least 4-5 of all the kozuka are much higher level of craftsmanship than menuki. If there weren't holes their value could be quite good. Although some of them could be saved by filling the holes by the same material and by making an even type of surface. But the intervention will remain still obvious especially on smooth surface. Although, even with the holes they can be quite nice study pieces.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

It is worth mentioning that a truly professional restoration will virtually be undetectable, yes, even holes, but in order to achieve this kind of result, again, time is money.

 

And, although these kozuka may 'look good', the question here is whether these kozuka were originally made as kozuka and then converted to kitchenware handles, or were they made as kitchenware handles? The closer I look, the more I think the later.

[TETSUGENDO]

A NOTE FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY

The "Kitchenwares" referenced were, when originally sold, fashionable luxury goods that would have cost multiple weeks of an average mans wages. As articles for dinner service they would have been stored in the dining room, in an appropriate receptacle, or the "Butlers pantry". All cultural context deserves accurate representation.

-StevenK

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

Just to clarify, kitchenware kozuka in all likelihood were made by former tosogu craftsman during the Meiji period. Differences to look for would be found in the finer detail and material finish. Otherwise we see very familiar themes being depicted. One problem often seen with kitchenware pieces is westerners using silverware polish on them thinking the intended black finish should be removed. 

 

BTW, has anyone translated and checked the mei on the signed kozuka?

[TETSUGENDO]

Japanese tosogu-shi did produce "handles" for the western market.  In addition, real Kozuka were utilized and facsimile "handles" were made in Great Britain and the United States.

 

-StevenK.

p.s.-as far as metal polish is concerned....one should have to be licensed to acquire it!

[Surfson]

As to the kozuka with kitchenware inserted, I have seen some extraordinarily fine ones (and have a couple).  If they haven't been modified, they are sometimes held in with pitch, and I understand that they can be removed after being soaked in boiling water to melt the pitch.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

As I've yet to see an actual kozuka made as a kozuka for a sword converted to a kitchenware handle, any examples posted would be welcomed and appreciated. Thank you.

[TETSUGENDO]

Robert S,

 

Most of the substances used, but not all, will yield using the method you describe.  If the piece is something you would leave to chance do as you will.  A bad outcome is a very real possibility!  I believe restorers/conservators should be used for items we value....it assures the best chance of a positive result.  If you do not wish to make further investment in your piece leave it as an example of Japonisme.  After all, your piece is part of the history of Kodogu in the western world.

 

-StevenK

[Surfson]

Franco, I will look for the two that I have.  They are both fitted with solid sterling silver forks and I bought them out of a wonderful complete set that Bob Benson had.  Steven, I have not tried to remove them, but was just relaying what was my understanding about how they are often attached.