Mantetsu Suriage Or Wak?

[obiwanknabbe]

34.5 inches overall length... 23.75 inch nagasa...So i think i'm 99.99% correct in thinking that this is a cut down Mantetsu (which honestly i dont think i have ever seen before)... The placement of the mei in relation to the mekugi ana, in conjunction with the yasuri mei variations, seems to indicate it was a katana cut to wakizashi size ... but... i'm .01% curious.. is there an off chance this is a factory wak? 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Compare to this one Ed had: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/23002-mantetsu-wakizashi/

 

 

 

Reckon you're right, suriage. Is it still in Shin Gunto mountings? They were popular Tameshigiri swords for some time so it would be consistent with shortening to suit them.

[obiwanknabbe]

yes..still in war mounts.. wood saya.. leather sheath... i was thinking cut down for a tank or aircraft.

[Dave R]

34.5 inches overall length... 23.75 inch nagasa...So i think i'm 99.99% correct in thinking that this is a cut down Mantetsu (which honestly i dont think i have ever seen before)... The placement of the mei in relation to the mekugi ana, in conjunction with the yasuri mei variations, seems to indicate it was a katana cut to wakizashi size ... but... i'm .01% curious.. is there an off chance this is a factory wak? 

 

  Likely, indeed almost certainly a suraige blade, but still within regulation length, and a little long for "crew mounts". I have read elsewhere that Gunto no Soho put some emphasis of speed of draw, so my guess is it was shortened to facilitate that. It was in field mounts rather than formal ones after all.

 

An online conversation about Gunto no Soho here. http://www.e-budo.com/archive/index.php/t-14638.html

[Bruce Pennington]

Kurt, do you own this? Pretty cool, with the "Namizuzu street emblem" stamp!

[Ed]

Suriage. The last several characters of the mei are missing.

[obiwanknabbe]

No Bruce i dont own it.. was thinking of owning it.. but a cut down modern made sword seems like a poor investment unless i could get it on the super cheep.. its part of an auction lot with another tanto.. now if it was a Wak id be all over it. .. ill put in a low bid and see what happens.. tanto looks ok.. 

[Dave R]

I think you will regret missing this... not today, but some time down the line!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Mantetsus are getting more and more collectable. This piece would be more interesting if the suriage occurred during WW2, but that would be hard to prove.

 

Get it if you can, Mantetsu still in mounts with the emblem are rare and sought after no matter the condition.

[obiwanknabbe]

some more pics of the blade.. what do you guys think is the max i should bid? 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hard to say, not in polish and shortened, get it for what you can but don't go crazy.

[obiwanknabbe]

It hammered for $1800... way to much for the condition in my opinion. 

[Dave R]

Wow!

[reeder]

Rock island draws lots of different buyers with deep pockets.

[Stephen]

one coming up in PA 1st March

 

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/Japanese-mantetsu-manchurian-railway-katana-swo-302-c-e1949ccb03

 

few other swords too

[Mortis]

☝???? Morphy's had one a few months ago that sold for $1800ish I believe. Might have been over 2 grand though, too. I can't remember. That auction house is about 1.5 hours away from me . I was thinking about attending this upcoming one just to take in the festivities. I'm not really looking to buy at the moment. Anything look interesting or worthwhile? Most look in fairly less than desirable condition to me.

[Bruce Pennington]

34.5 inches overall length... 23.75 inch nagasa...So i think i'm 99.99% correct in thinking that this is a cut down Mantetsu (which honestly i dont think i have ever seen before)... is there an off chance this is a factory wak?

 

I was reviewing this discussion and noticed the hamon carries around the curve of the kissaki, meaning the tip wasn't shortened, so for the nagasa to be shorter than standard, someone had to move the hamachi and munemachi. This is not hard, I guess for a professional. Anyone know if there is a way to tell?

 

I agree with Kurt that the mei is correctly placed around the mekugi-ana. Is there a standard distance from the ana to the machi? If the machi were moved, this might show in the measurement?

[PNSSHOGUN]

On a new Suriage there would be a large gap from the filemarks to the Machi one would imagine.