62Nd Juyo Sword Auction On Aoi

[Vermithrax16]

Well out of my range (and most peoples) but this one is a marvel to look at so figured it was worth a post.

 

The health of this sword jumps out, as well as the wonderful kissaki. Aoi also included a live light picture of the blade, which I wish they would do for all listings:

http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as17325-%E5%88%80%EF%BC%9A%E7%84%A1%E9%8A%98%E5%B7%A6%E5%BC%98%E8%A1%8C%E7%AC%AC62%E5%9B%9E%E9%87%8D%E8%A6%81%E5%88%80%E5%89%A3-katana-mumeisa-hiroyuki62nd-nbthk-juyo-paper

 

 

While you are looking anyway, this may be the most stunning Ishido sword I have ever seen, and I look for them a lot:

http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as17491-%E5%88%80%EF%BC%9A%E7%9F%B3%E5%A0%82%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E7%B2%BE%E9%8D%9B%E4%BD%9C%E4%B9%8B%E6%96%87%E4%B9%85%E5%85%83%E5%B9%B4%E5%85%AB%E6%9C%88%E6%97%A5-katana-ishidosekido-korekazu-seitan-saku-kore-0

[Jean]

This is a top sword for beginner, Considering the price, I even prefer it to the Sa:

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumei-tegai-kanetoshi

[TheGermanBastard]

Hello Jean,

 

indeed a very nice blade at a very attractive or better say cheap price.

 

The Sa is very nice of course while I don't agree on the condition. While the condition is of course not bad I think it is not really good either.

[Vermithrax16]

This is a top sword for beginner, Considering the price, I even prefer it to the Sa:

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumei-tegai-kanetoshi

Yes, I have been studying the listing/pics for 2 hours. No idea why so low priced, dimensions not THAT bad. Due to your swords I always stop at the Tegai or Hosho swords.

[TheGermanBastard]

I think the sword mentioned by Jean is a really good deal. It is a bit short which may not be in favor with some collectors  - while I think size does not aways matter.

[Vermithrax16]

I think the sword mentioned by Jean is a really good deal. It is a bit short which may not be in favor with some collectors  - while I think size does not aways matter.

 

As to the Sa, you don't think the condition is good? Anything in particular?

[Jean]

It is an auction so nobody knows what will be the final price, but it is really a bargain. You will notice that the kanteisho gives an attribution to Kanetoshi, not so frequent. I have not checked but probably jo saku level.

[Guido]

 It is a bit short which may not be in favor with some collectors  - while I think size does not aways matter.

 

It does matter indeed to many collectors, especially in Japan - I know quite a few people who never would buy a katana below 70 cm . Personally, I think it depends on the shape and overall balance, not only the length (which I also used to tell the girls when I was younger ...).

[SwordGuyJoe]

I’m glad someone mentioned that Korekazu blade. The best, hands down, ishido blade that I have ever seen! While outside of my sandbox, I do look at Korekazu’s work every time they pop up, just because I like his work and this one is my favorite to date. (Thank god I love Gendaito!)

[TheGermanBastard]

 

As to the Sa, you don't think the condition is good? Anything in particular?

 

Well, I am reluctant to put criticism towards this blade since we are talking about a thing in the top tier here ... so it is just excellent overall. But when putting on a high class focus I think that the Nagako is not in good shape and the blade looks less healthy in the day light images than in the others ones.

 

The Tegai blade is in my humble oppinion priced very cheap considering the cost of polishing, the two piece silver Habaki and nicely aged Shirasaya.

[Surfson]

That Korekazu is truly gorgeous.  Is Tsuruta San stating that it is the 7th generation Korekazu?  The english is slightly unclear.  I assume that it is 7th since he was the other big maker along with the shodai.  Any experts on the Korekazu line want to weigh in?  The papers don't state which generation.  

[TheGermanBastard]

It does matter indeed to many collectors, especially in Japan - I know quite a few people who never would buy a katana below 70 cm . Personally, I think it depends on the shape and overall balance, not only the length (which I also used to tell the girls when I was younger ...).

 

Well said

 

70 cm is maybe a bit elite ... but overall that is true. When having a choice you should always go for the big guys. Again I think we shoudl not always take the focus on a piece of paper called Juyo, but indeed there is a significant correlation of size and Juyo issued. If too short you have hard time in general. 70 cm is ineed a good size as pointed out by Guido.

[Gakusee]

For Koto and Kamakura era blades, 70cm nagasa is not “maybe a bit elite” but it is outright outstanding and elitarian. In fact, there seem to be two lengths to which really old blades were shortened to in Muromachi and early Edo period: one around 61-63 cm and the second around the 67-69cm. Of course, as we move into Shinto era and later blades, 70cm+ becomes much more common and in fact - almost a prerequisite. Darcy had done some statistical analysis somewhere showing those local peaks on a chart.

For a top school dating to Koto in good condition, length while taken into consideration does not seem an issue with regards to Juyo papering - Rai, Awataguchi, Ichimonji, Soshu etc. However, it does become more of an issue at TJ level from my modest observations.

[vajo]

Its a nice sword with no flaws. Little to short and a little boring in my eyes. There is no eye catching element for me to see. I wonder if it goes for the price.

[Gakusee]

As so often here, the thread has become a mishmash of comments about majorly different things. In particular, posters have comment on three very different swords:

- Juyo Sa (reasonably good deal currently; do not think it will deviate majorly post auction and probably a buyer could negotiate a bit further down) - one could see the machiokuri, the hasaki chip close to the hamachi which probably led to the shortening (also notice how the gentle Photoshopping of that kizu shows the omote and ura looking ever so slightly differently) and the corroded nakago but still I think a very good blade with great Nanbokucho sugata and features

- Tegai (the shorter blade with good hada etc but very cheaply priced)

- the vivid, flamboyant Korekazu (which I like but might be perceived as too vulgarly hadadachi by some)

 

So perhaps we should comment (not particularly allowed) on these in separate threads?

[TheGermanBastard]

For Koto and Kamakura era blades, 70cm nagasa is not “maybe a bit elite” but it is outright outstanding and elitarian. In fact, there seem to be two lengths to which really old blades were shortened to in Muromachi and early Edo period: one around 61-63 cm and the second around the 67-69cm. Of course, as we move into Shinto era and later blades, 70cm+ becomes much more common and in fact - almost a prerequisite. Darcy had done some statistical analysis somewhere showing those local peaks on a chart.

For a top school dating to Koto in good condition, length while taken into consideration does not seem an issue with regards to Juyo papering - Rai, Awataguchi, Ichimonji, Soshu etc. However, it does become more of an issue at TJ level from my modest observations.

 

Hello Michael, you are right ... it is just as elite as when we talk Juyo - which we probably do too often as hands down we collect sword like we drive a car - which likely isn't a Ferrari on most occasions.

 

I think Darcy has a figure where he has analyzed length assocaited with Juyo. Overall the longer a blade the more likely it did not get shortened or the lesser the length it lost thus the closer it remains to its original condition. So aside from teh pur elength we are in the end probably talking about how much a sword remains its original condition, hence how well it has been preserverd. The better an antique is preserverd, the unaltered it is, the more desireable it is. I believe that the two cents summing up the length problem.

 

Sometimes a Suriage can be a bargain as it will heavily cut the price but you can still get the exclent work of a smith considerably cheaper.

[Jean]

I have checked the pictures of the Sa (photoshopped Scan and daylight pictures), same for the Yukihiro. I have reached a conclusion. Don’t buy any blade without having the daylight pictures of the blade, photoshop erases all the ware. I have already detected hamon ware/kizu on daylight pictures which did not show on the photoshopped scans.

[lonely panet]

edit,

 

sorry jean, mis understood your point

[Jean]

Did I say that, Hamfish? I said that photoshopped scans can hide flaws so that to be sure, daylight pictures are necessary. Why do you think daylight pictures were displaid?

[Vermithrax16]

Did I say that, Hamfish? I said that photoshopped scans can hide flaws so that to be sure, daylight pictures are necessary. Why do you think daylight pictures were displaid?

 At the start of this thread I added that I was elated that Aoi has started to include real light pictures. I even added a different thread on it as well:

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/24682-welcome-addition-real-light-pictures/

 

I often ask Aoi for real light pictures, and if I had last year, I would have dodged a bad buy. When I ask for this kind of picture from various sources, it can be like pulling teeth. It's an absolute requirement for me now, so don't expect a sale to me without one. Not going to happen.

 

As to the Sa blade, when was the 62nd Juyo session? Having trouble finding a list, but recent I would think. The health of the Sa is probably what got it the ticket, even with some ware. Or maybe it was a bad session. 

[TheGermanBastard]

I have checked the pictures of the Sa (photoshopped Scan and daylight pictures), same for the Yukihiro. I have reached a conclusion. Don’t buy any blade without having the daylight pictures of the blade, photoshop erases all the ware. I have already detected hamon ware/kizu on daylight pictures which did not show on the photoshopped scans.

 

Very well said jean! The sa looked much better in the none-daylight images!

 

By the way, an "interesting" thing just turned up:

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-bishu-osafune-yasumitsuouei-34-nen-2-gatsu-hi-february-1427

 

I leave it to the audience what to consider interesting about it.

[Jean]

Most probably 2nd generation. It is assumed that works after 1423 can be attributed to second generation (Markus Sesko)

 

Edit to say, ask for a Hozon guarantee...

[Valric]

It's the best korekazu I have seen. This one really goes back to the Chogi school soden-bizen style and tries to replicate the jihada, and does a very good job at it. Unusual for a Shinshinto smith, 7th gen Korekazu has a couple of Juyo and is highly regarded. This blade has a shot at Juyo shinsa in my opinion, and the price is very fair given its potential. The only thing holding it back is its size, and its a big 'but' as Shina is very sensitive to it. He was active between 1830 and 1890, this was made in 1861. It's mature work. Whoever made that solid gold habaki on a shinshinto sword which isn't Kyomaro agrees...not to mention the polish is astounding. 

 

The Sa blade I am no fan at all, its in fact rather impressive that it passed Juyo. Given the price Sa school work usually fetch, this is really a bottom tier juyo that passed between the cracks. Stay away. The reason it passed is probably that it has very, very distinctive features which can be directly attributed to a specific Sa student, which is quite rare. 

 

The Yamato blade is indeed very fairly price and a great beginner sword or a way to get into Yamato work without breaking the bank. Fantastic value.  

[Surfson]

The Korekazu is just barely under 70cm (69.2) and is over 27 inches (27.24), another length barrier, at least for American collectors.  What may compensate for what it lacks in length is the fact that it is very wide and very thick.  The hamachi is 3.05 cm or 1.2 inches, and the kasane is .76 cm or .3 inches.  It must be very impressive to hold in the hand.  It would also be impossible to hold it and know whether it is under or over 70 cm without measuring it I believe.  Finally, that hamon with the sunagashi, kinsuji and nioiguchi and the incredible hada are also quite compelling.  I would be very curious to know if it would pass juyo.  Tsuruta San seems to be saying that it may, though his wording was "This blade is not inferior to juyo token..."!  

[Valric]

After discussing this I don't think it would pass Juyo, the Bo-hi was most likely added after as an addition to make it appear more in line with his best work. Later addition of a bo-hi is sufficient for a rejection on a shinshinto sword. The old TH also tell you that someone most likely tried and it bounced. Despite that it's still very good work. 

[Surfson]

JEREMIAH, YOU ARE KILLING ME!!!!!

 

So there I was, enjoying my sword collection, just innocently tooling along......

And then you had to post that Ishido Korekazu blade.  Truly spectacular.

 

INCORRIGIBLE!!

 

I'm not talking about you here, I'm talking about me.  So I ended up buying it and now Tsuruta San is going to submit it for Juyo (probably a long shot, but what the heck).

So.....I will have to be selling some fantastic swords that I planned to keep at the Chicago show.  Really, a couple of the keepers have to come out.

 

I do have to admit that the same thing happened with that Taikei Naotane a while back, though in that case I was a little annoyed since I had already seen it and was planning to go for it before you advertised it to the world..... As it turns out, no worries since nobody bid on it in the auction.  

 

Anyway, I'm just teasing Jeremiah.  We do have very similar taste and I appreciate you pointing this blade out, I think it is a true beauty.  I hope to meet some day.  Cheers, Bob

[Vermithrax16]

I can't help it if you have exquisite taste Bob

 

A real beauty the Korekazu is. Super jealous. Congrats.

[Brian]

Would be nice if people would mention that the sale came from a mention on the NMB...it strengthens our influence with sellers, and I am working on a few things behind the scenes to try and benefit members with certain sites and sellers.
Doesn't hurt to emphasize that fact...

[Surfson]

It certainly was true in this case Brian!  I am grateful to Jeremiah for pointing it out.  I will let Tsuruta San know about it.  It is a double edged sword of course (pun intended), if you consider the conversation about the Taikei Naotane on Aoi that is discussed on another thread.....Cheers, Bob

[Brian]

Bob,

Which is precisely why we are known to be fair and impartial. You won't find anyone "bought" here. You will find the good and the bad. Searches will show the bad side of deals and dealers as well as the good.
Sellers had better know that and respect it. But for dealers who are fair and honest, there is always a benefit. Just look at the general comments about some of our current dealer-members (won't mention names as I am bound to forget someone) who are recommended time and time again.