Koa Ishin Mantetsu Gunto On Aoi

[Vermithrax16]

Not my field of interest or knowledge (limited as it is) but I know quite a few people love the military swords and this one seems pretty cool:

http://www.sword-auction.jp/en/content/as16121%E5%88%80%E8%88%88%E4%BA%9C%E4%B8%80%E5%BF%83%E6%BA%80%E9%89%84%E4%BD%9C-%E6%98%AD%E5%92%8C%E5%A3%AC%E5%8D%88%E7%A7%8B-katanaguntokoa-ishin-mantetsu-saku-showa-mizunoe-uma-autumn

[vajo]

Nice to see the interest in that sword on aoi. More and more collectors look to gendai-to.

[Daniel]

Nice to see the interest in that sword on aoi. More and more collectors look to gendai-to.

Hopefully, but this isn’t Gendaito...

[Davidarmy]

Gunto - "military sword" (this refers to all swords in military mounts, not to whether the blade is handmade or not.)

Gendaito - "modern sword" (this refers to the sword having been made between 1876 and 1945, not to whether the blade is handmade or not.)

Showato - "Showa era sword" (this term refers to any sword made during the Showa era, 1926 to 1989, not to whether it is handmade or not.)

[vajo]

You are both right Daniel and David.

 

The Mantetsu is for me in the same league like a true Nihonto. So i call it Gendai-to.

[SwordGuyJoe]

Gunto - "military sword" (this refers to all swords in military mounts, not to whether the blade is handmade or not.)

Gendaito - "modern sword" (this refers to the sword having been made between 1876 and 1945, not to whether the blade is handmade or not.)

Showato - "Showa era sword" (this term refers to any sword made during the Showa era, 1926 to 1989, not to whether it is handmade or not.)

From a literal translation, this is correct. However from the standpoint of how the terms “Gendaito” and “showato” are used to describe swords, the literal translation does not convey how the terms are used today. Gendaito is used as a term to describe swords made from 1876 to 1945 using traditional forging methods and material, where showato is used to describe swords made in the same timeframe, but using non-traditional methods and/or material.

 

I know you know this David, but others may not.

[obiwanknabbe]

It's pretty amazing to see Mantetsu swords selling for this much... I have to wonder how many are still around seeing that so many were destroyed. Are they rarer than we think?

 

Kurt K

[AndyMcK]

Makes me think that I sold mine a bit too early.

 

-Antti

[PNSSHOGUN]

It may have gone for more considering it is in Japan. and not considered Nihonto.

[Peter Bleed]

Well, gee. Mantetsu blades are NOT all that uncommon and for a cleaned up pieces from an vendor like Aoi-sama. This price seems pretty reasonable. What I find interesting is the appearance of this sword on a "Japanese" site. Tsuruta-san periodically also offers Nagamitsu and Emura blades as well as other Gendai-to. I strongly suspect that that he has been drawn in this direction by Non-Japanese collectors. That is to say, I think the American interest in War time swords has generated an interest in Japan.Japanese sword collecting is becoming "international"!

Peter

[lonely panet]

as you may know, im not that impressed with the prices these sell for. but I can say that this example is poor example compared to the standard koa ishin mantetsu you see.

 

unevan shinoji from tip to tail.

 

evan the mei is abit rough compared to your average piece.

 

for that price you can get a nice emura or nagamitsu out of the US.

 

and I completely agree that the only reason this is on a Japanese dealers website, is to only attract attention outside Japan.

[lonely panet]

as you may know, im not that impressed with the prices these sell for. but I can say that this example is poor example compared to the standard koa ishin mantetsu you see.

 

unevan shinoji from tip to tail.

 

evan the mei is abit rough compared to your average piece.

 

for that price you can get a nice emura or nagamitsu out of the US.

 

and I completely agree that the only reason this is on a Japanese dealers website, is to only attract attention outside Japan.

[IJASWORDS]

No GUNTO collection is really complete without a MANTETSU, MINATOGAWA and YASUKUNI to study and appreciate. Emura and Nagamitsu are great Showa smiths, as are many many others of this period.

Swords sell for what a buyer is willing to pay, and it just so happens that there is a big demand for good Gunto, especially the less common ones. So don't be surprised at current prices.

[lonely panet]

don't you dare put that mantetsu in the same sentence and yasukuni or minatogawa Neil.

 

it just doesn't deserve to be compared to them or have the history as the two formers schools, or the quality.

[celt72]

This one on Aoi seems to be on the short side. It seems like most of the mantetsu that I've seen have a nagasa of 66.68cm, while this one is 62.3cm.

[IJASWORDS]

Hamfish, if you read carefully, they were not put in any "quality" category. My comment was based on what blades would be interesting to study, for different reasons, from different origins, that would make an interesting Gunto collection. I enjoy my three examples for different reasons.  I have done enough research to know the differences.

[lonely panet]

my mistake, sorry to take your comment out of context

[IJASWORDS]

All good. There is still some mystery associated with the MANTETSU blades. What locations were they made, who made them, what is the meaning of the numbering system on the mune. There is also conjecture on the types of forging processes. It has long been thought that a soft iron (lower carbon) rod was inserted into a harder tube (higher carbon), and drawn out by heating and hammer welding, but not folded. This obviously gave a extremely heat treatable outer skin, whilst providing a resilient inner core. BUT, some members on NMB have posted photos  of their blades which show a defined HAHA.

So the theory of multiple locations, multiple smiths and a variety of process makes for good study.

[PNSSHOGUN]

My only guess is the Kawagane outer tube was made of forged and folded steel.

 

I appreciate them more for their strict and focused combat design, most likely the last Japanese sword specifically and truly designed for war.