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Curious About The Mei

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#1 Ooitame

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 06:48 PM

Hello everyone,

Wondering what left and right side translate to in english (US).

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Eric

#2 raymondsinger

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:16 PM

Kyoho ju nen hachi gatsu hi (a day in the tenth month of 1725)

#3 raymondsinger

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:19 PM

Oshu Aizu ju Miyoshi Masanaga (swordsmith name and full mei)...
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#4 Ooitame

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 11:04 PM

Thanks Raymond.
Eric

#5 Stephen

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 11:19 PM

Eric, please sign your name  per board rules. 


                        Stephen C.

               USMC DEC 63 APR 73                                                

          "Alas,  Everyday i know less"


#6 Bugyotsuji

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 05:25 AM

Really clear and considerate photography, Eric. A pleasure to behold.
Piers D

平常心 Heijoshin

#7 Ooitame

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:51 AM

Hi Ray, I have no reason to doubt your translation, but can you confirm 1725?
I ask as all the research I have found about this smith is that he died in 1716... this interests me a little. Is this community familiar with swords being dated 9 years after the swords creation/smiths death?
I will have to do some more research and see if in 1725 in Aizu (kyoto?) something noteworthy happened and this was possibly for a gift/commemoration.
Eric

#8 Ooitame

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:54 AM

Hi Piers, thank you, but, I did not take those pictures. Maybe one day I will have the equipment and skill so the credit is not mine


Eric

#9 raymondsinger

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 03:00 AM

Kyoho 10 does appear to be the date. The sandai's working period is up 1716, but perhaps he worked beyond this? Is 1716 his date of death or simply the end of his representative working period (Shotoku).

Best regards,
Ray
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#10 Ooitame

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 03:09 AM

Thank you Ray, for the quick reply. I will do some more digging on this (shotoku and death) and get back with what I find.

 

Thanks again,

Eric


Eric

#11 Ooitame

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:11 AM

After further research I have found that you are right his Shotoku was from 1711 - 1716, his death was in 1726.
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Eric

#12 ROKUJURO

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:34 PM

If I may add a small detail: Date is KYOHO JU NEN HACHI GATSU HI (a day in the eighth month of the tenth year of KYOHO).

This is often a more symbolic month date, as February and August were thought to be good for quenching a sword blade. I read that in these month the water temperature was especially good for that, but as the smith had to warm the quenching water to a suitable temperature, this is probably just a mythical thing.  


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Regards,

Jean C.

#13 Ooitame

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:27 AM

Hi Jean, thank you for the additional knowledge. That is interesting I have not heard about the month in relation to the quenching water temp. I am no smith, but it does sound like it makes sense.

 

Is it common to see works after an attributed shotoku?


Eric

#14 NihontoCollector

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:16 AM

Hi Jean, thank you for the additional knowledge. That is interesting I have not heard about the month in relation to the quenching water temp. I am no smith, but it does sound like it makes sense.

 

Is it commom to see works after an attributed shotuku?

 

No. It could mean that this is a very special and important sword.


Luis


#15 raymondsinger

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:37 AM

Shotoku is simply the time period, not particularly rare in itself. Dates (nengo) typically begin with the time period. As Jean mentioned dates to the 2nd and 8th month are the most common. I've always found swords that were dated shogatsu, the first month, to be interesting because it is said that the smith tries to start off the year with his best work.

#16 NihontoCollector

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:42 AM

You should send the sword for Shinsa.


Luis


#17 Ooitame

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:06 AM

Very good to know, I have learned quite a bit about dates and some of the meanings behind them. Also, Ray, thanks for using the word description followed by the word in parenthesis; much appreciated.

 

The sword is being submited for shinsa. But it is my understanding that the oragami, unless Juyo or higher, does not offer much inisght from the judges perspective. Would love to see what the experts think and feel as to some of the items submitted.


Eric

#18 NihontoCollector

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:12 AM

Or send it to the NTHK who will give you more information.

 

You may wish to send it to both NTHK branches for a maxium of information available and get Sayagaki from Tanobe Sensei.


Luis


#19 raymondsinger

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:10 AM

Tanobe-sensei generally prefers to give sayagaki for swords with existing NBTHK kanteisho and for blades of Tokubetsu Hozon class or higher (or blades which meet the requirement to pass Tokubetsu Hozon). While I believe he will make exceptions, that seems to be what is most typical.

As far as not receiving detailed information in NBTHK kanteisho, you will get verification of the mei (when present), school and sometimes more detailed information pointing to a specific lineage (such as Kyo or Osaka Yoshimichi) and the generation. The length is also stated. NTHK kanteisho will give some more specifics about the jitetsu, hamon, boshi, etc however those details are largely self evident with a bit of study.

Shotoku:
https://en.m.wikiped...i/Shōtoku_(era)

#20 NihontoCollector

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:14 AM

If I were the topic starter I would also submitt it to both NTHK Shinsas and ask Tanobe Sensei for Sayagaki. Thsi will offer the maximum of infoirmationa nd thus appreciation of what might be an important sword.


Luis


#21 Ooitame

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:33 AM

Thanks for the link good information. I asked the agent about getting sayagaki once the shirasaya is complete and was told Tanobe Sensei was currently on hold for sayagaki. Maybe once the habaki, nbthk shinsa, and shirasaya are done I will re ask about sayagaki. Of course this assumes he is willing and my blade is indeed worthy of his time.


Eric

#22 NihontoCollector

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:48 AM

Makre sure to get a quality Shirasaya and Habaki done. It is best to have a gold foil Habaki made.


Luis


#23 NihontoCollector

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:03 AM

And you will need a Tsunagi for the old Koshirae made. Make sure it has a removeabke wood Habaki made.

 

AOI Art can help you find a matching Kozuka. When it has been added you can submitt the Koshirae for Shinsa.


Luis


#24 Ooitame

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:11 PM

Hi Luis, forgot to mention I am also having a tsunagi made as well. I would get a kozuka and have it submited, unfortunetly funds for this item are all but gone. Saving the little bit that is left in hopes of a good shinsa and the funds will go to sayagaki. If not, the it gets rolled over to the next item.


Eric





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