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Registry Of Enlisted Family Swords?


acoyauh

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Hello, Forumers

I'm hoping someone here can give me some pointers.

I have a muromachi sword in gunto koshirae, and on the nakago on red lacquer there is number 91.  I understand these were given when someone enrolled (or was drafted?) with their family blade. I think it is noteworthy how small the nimber is...

 

My question is, does anyone know if there is a registry somewhere, where I can see the name of the soldier that enrolled with this sword?

I am trying to piece together its story, and this was its last Japanese owner - and could give me the family name to trace back... hopefully

 

Any pointers or suggestions will be very appreciated.

 

Thank you!

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sounds like you may have your wires crossed abit.

 

with military swords, red painted written numbers on the nakago are a good pointer toward mass produced non traditional blades.

 

On  O-suriage blades, red lacquered writing can be refurred to as a "SHUMEI" which is the name of the smith applied. normally as a post mod appraisal.

the other more educated members will expand on my short baby interrupted explanation. 

 

pics will really help.

 

but heres 2 bad examples I just grabbed of the net

post-571-0-85567100-1513377957_thumb.jpg

post-571-0-92465600-1513377971_thumb.jpg

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Jean Paul,

You ask a very good question, but one that seems to have eluded the sword collecting community. Obviously there should be lists of officers, but we seem never to have found those lists and linked them with the "surrender tags" that are are/were commonly found on gunto.. I understand that Japanese pistol collectors DO have ways of researching names found on holsters.  However that is done for pistols,it should work for gunto. It might also be worth asking for help from you local Japanese embassy.

Best of luck.

Peter

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Thank you, guys.

The sword is definitely a Muromachi, with a validated swordsmith signature and, of course, no armory stamp. Two kantei experts have confirmed this and also notified me that it is "fatally flawed" since past polishes did away with the boshi.

You make me wonder then about the lacquered number on the nakago... Not much into gunto so far, my collection is all koto and a couple of NCO's I used when learning to polish. Too bad, I see they keep rising in value now in the market  =S  oops

 

Thank you, Peter. I am not far from the embassy, I might try asking there, although I imagine other collectors have tried this before.

 

Have a nice weekend!

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Hamfish

Would you care to explicate why you think the examples you attach are “bad”? Especially given that the first one is done by the respected Honami Koson and is on a Juyo sword? The second - I agree is is mishmash of colours and sloppy writing.....

 

Thanks

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the quality and subject matter are on the whole good, but with the limited time i had, i would have liked to get better or detailed photos.

 

Especially the showato nakago,  as normaly the paint is white or red. Green and yellow are not common, or average and might be a misrepresentation of the most common encountered.

 

why do you ask?? did I upset you in any way?

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It is like chalk and cheese - one is sloppy, messy writing and the other is calligraphy by one of the Honami experts on an Ichimonji blade. So I was wondering by what criteria you were judging them both to be even remotely in the same bucket.

 

I have seen many a shumei blade and frankly, shumei as well

as kinzogan and kinpun mei are usually quite beautifully executed.

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I was wondering. Could it possibly be arsenal assembly numbers for older blades remounted for military mounts? There was that one mumei Muromachi Bizen wakizashi and the same with the Sa katana in Type 98 mounts that tokashikibob had posted a while back.

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It is like chalk and cheese - one is sloppy, messy writing and the other is calligraphy by one of the Honami experts on an Ichimonji blade. So I was wondering by what criteria you were judging them both to be even remotely in the same bucket.

 

I have seen many a shumei blade and frankly, shumei as well

as kinzogan and kinpun mei are usually quite beautifully executed.

Read the thread carefully then post. Unless you're just in the mood to argue for no reason?

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Ruined NCO. Never something I like to hear. Why use history when there is plenty of Chinese junk available? I'll leave amateur polishing comments to others.

Not ruined. I did practice on China blades first, then Oaxaca swords for full re-shape practice. The NCO's were just my first works on rusty blades. One was recovered fine, the other had rust pitting going side-to-side and, even with good shaping and polish, looked - well, ruined. Of all those early blades I ony keep one Oaxaca just as a memento, but it's not on display with the others.

Of my koto, all have been restored to mint or near-mint status, except for one muromachi that also has rust pitting in the hammon. Rather than do away with all of it, it was polished to a point where pitting appeared in its minimum. It was a sword for a practitioner friend, not for display, so he did not mind the flaws very much, it performs beautifully and is kept as a family treasure. And it is.

"Oops" meant, I bought them as junk, and then sold them again nearly as junk, since they were "not nihonto"

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"Oops" meant, I bought them as junk, and then sold them again nearly as junk, since they were "not nihonto"

 

Something often forgotten. I can remember when even Nihonto were "displayed" in the shop's umbrella stand, and NCO swords and  type 98's were £5 each and used for gardening, as in brush cutting and hedging..... When they weren't used as toys. I remember seeing a beat up Kai-Gunto outside the trade tent left in the rain, not seen as worth bothering to bring in.

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