Why Is It The Norm To Use Japanese Words To Describe Blade Characteristics?

[Valric]

Something I've been wondering about lately as I showed a blade to a friend. 

 

I can't quite think of other hobbies where the words used to describe elements of that hobby are in a foreign language. 

 

I can see an advantage of using these words at one level: the lack of their one-word equivalent in the English language.

 

But the vast majority have perfectly fine English translation. size, width, curvature, tip...

 

Others need a little bit of an assemblage: martensite crystal granularity, tempering line geometry. Skin steel, tempering line, welding pattern...

 

Some are plainly impossible to describe without a full sentence (funbari anyone?) 

 

Finally, do you think it is an impediment to the hobby, a barrier to entry? especially when it comes to attracting new collectors? Or does it add a "je-ne-sais-quoi" of mysticism which can also be construed as misguided elitism... 

 

Discuss. 

[paulb]

when I began I thought having to use Japanese terminology a pain. In fact the Engish versions of the NBTHK journals produced in the 1970s often used English equivalent descriptions. At one point it was regarded as a matter of respect to use the correct Japanese terms however I think the reality is that it eliminates any possible confusion. I admit that things like length and width could be and often are converted. but terms such as koshi-sori yokote etc have no simple, concise and clear equivalent in English.

After you get used to Japanese terms it becomes strange to hear people using the translated equivalent.

Another advantage, I attended a meeting in Germany. I don't speak German but understood exactly what the lecturer  were saying because they used Japanese terminology.

[PNSSHOGUN]

I'm with Paul, simply avoids confusion. The only english words I tend to use are sword and blade

[vajo]

I go with Paul.

You can spoke worldwide with a another collector in different languages and he knows what what you say about the sword. It's like latin in science.

[NihontoEurope]

Same as in the Budo world. Train as you go...all over the world.

[Valric]

Interesting perspectives. It's also the case for asian martial arts, something which I had overlooked. 

 

Like the Latin of science...that's also an interesting point. True, it facilitates communication across borders where language may be an impediment. Useful for something which is very much an international hobby with linguistically scattered groups.

 

koshi-sori yokote, good one! 

[Ken-Hawaii]

Besides, it's their blades, so why shouldn't they use their language to describe their characteristics? We in the U.S. especially are English-centric, but others aren't.

 

If you look up "claymore" on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore), those characteristics are in English (even though metric). I can't speak for Chinese, Russian, or other countries' blades. Guido, how about Indonesian?

[Okiiimo]

I don’t think it’s possible to progress in the study of Nihonto without using the Japanese terminology. Further, I think true expertise in the subject requires fluency in the language.

[Stephen]

what would you use without? 

[Surfson]

It's an interesting question.  I suppose that part of the answer is that we are to a great extent, despite Markus' phenomenal efforts, locked into using Japanese reference texts.  Also, the shinsa papers are all in Japanese.  Learning the words, and especially how to recognize them in Japanese, is still a necessary part of the hobby if you want to best use these reference materials.  We can call sunagashi "flowing sand", or masame hada as "straight grain", but when it is written, it needs to be translated on the spot.  Just a thought.

[Jean]

Because the native language becomes international, no translation needed, universal

[Pete Klein]

From  my background in dental medicine I believe the reason is that you need to learn how to speak/think Nihonto.  Nihonto has it's own unique language which even the every day Japanese speaker does not understand (they are often incapable of translating the kanji without reference as they do not know the words).  Simply put, one cannot learn to 'think' Niihonto without speaking Nihonto.  It's the same as speaking dentistry, or engineering. or architecture.  Every field of study has it's own unique language which if you are going to become a 'professional' in you are required to learn.  When a medical doctor explains a condition to you they are translating from 'Doctor' to 'Everyman' which by the way can be difficult and is why sometimes it seems oversimplified.  It is.  It has to be, unless you speak 'Doctor' also.  Now, if you don't want to be a 'professional' but only a 'novice' with no intentions to go deep into the field, you can stick with your native language and just go with what is translated by WONDERFFUL guys like Marcus (and I mean that sincerely).  However, you'll never become an 'expert' or 'professional' without the language of the field.  It's really that simple.

[vajo]

Thats true Pete. Every profession has its own language.

[Chango]

The Japanese had accounted for every last nuance of their swords long before any westerner had even seen one (and far better than could be done in any other language), so it only makes sense to use Japanese terminology.

 

Besides, it's part of the fun! I keep a copy of Markus Sesko's encyclopedia of Nihonto terms handy on my phone... as I continue to learn and refer to it less often, sword descriptions look less like gobblygook and more like a simple but elegant system to describe a blade in extreme detail that would take 5 times more effort and space to accomplish purely in English.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think it is important to learn the correct Japanese terminology but it is also important to be able to explain things to for example beginners in their own language too. In my opinion you need to be able to explain things in easy to understand manner so that newcomers can start learning too. As new people are not exactly popping out around the corners I think we could/should ease their way in as much as we can.