Ww2 Showa Blade And Fittings But With Hamon

[matthew]

I posted this sword yesterday without any knowledge and seems that it a showa blade much to my disapointment  , but it still seems like an ok sword , I was wondering is the hamon maybe acid etched or was it maybe folded I really don't much about these swords date and how they were made also how much are they worth etc , any help would be great ,thankyou

[J Reid]

This hamon is probably oil quenched and so it is not an etched hamon. This sword has similar properties to traditionally made blades however some steps in the forging process were modified, skipped, and sometimes done by an inexperienced smith. The stamp indicates this. Yours seems to be in good period condition with good mounts and a tassel. WW2 swords market seem to be on a high right now so selling yours may bring good money..

[Windy]

Hello Matthew.

Have you been to Clare in Suffolk by chance?

Nice looking sword.

[Windy]

Apparently it’s by Kanetaka, a Seki Smith.

[matthew]

Hello Matthew.

Have you been to Clare in Suffolk by chance?

Nice looking sword.

hi there, yes I bought this from the local auction , the auctioneer sent me a picture of the signature but this did not show the showa stamp and so I thought I was getting an older blade and this was how the auctioneer also described it , sadly it looks like I paid to much for a ww2 era blade

[Dave R]

    A bit basic, and the bit on stamps now known to be wrong as in they are not Military acceptance stamps but manufacturers stamps. Still a useful precis of the options available for Showato.

[matthew]

This hamon is probably oil quenched and so it is not an etched hamon. This sword has similar properties to traditionally made blades however some steps in the forging process were modified, skipped, and sometimes done by an inexperienced smith. The stamp indicates this. Yours seems to be in good period condition with good mounts and a tassel. WW2 swords market seem to be on a high right now so selling yours may bring good money..

hi there thanks for your information

[matthew]

Ryujin swords.jpg    A bit basic, and the bit on stamps now known to be wrong as in they are not Military acceptance stamps but manufacturers stamps. Still a useful precis of the options available for Showato.

thanks for your help and adding this attachment

[ROKUJURO]

.....but it still seems like an ok sword , I was wondering is the hamon maybe acid etched or was it maybe folded 

Matthew,

 

as you can see from Dave's attached info paper, folded steel and HAMON are different features. Quenching in water for an 'active' HAMON requires a very pure steel free of alloy elements (except carbon), but most industrial steels (which can contain elements like manganese, silica, chromium, nickel, vanadium a.s.o.) have to be quenched in oil to prevent cracks.

 

Certainly it is 'an o.k. sword', depending on what you were looking for. It is a modern war relic, not a SAMURAI sword.   

 

 

[vajo]

The interest in Showa-to is rising every day. The prices get higher. It is a very interesting and well documented period in the world of nihon-to. In some years these swords will be 100 years old and the follow generations will not look bad on these swords. They are true war swords from one of the darkest period in mankind.

[IJASWORDS]

Chris. well said. But putting value aside, the SHOWA-TO is an example of swords used in war. They were not DRESS swords like those carried by other countries armed forces. They were a formidable weapon of combat. A Japanese officer without his sword was disgraced and lost face. So when I handle a GUNTO, I also think about the officer who carried it to war, and as such give it respect as he would have done. So Matthew, yours is not JUST a piece of war memorabilia, it represents a lot more than that. And 75 years ago, an officer cared for it, could have died with it........makes you think doesn't it. Neil.  

[matthew]

Chris. well said. But putting value aside, the SHOWA-TO is an example of swords used in war. They were not DRESS swords like those carried by other countries armed forces. They were a formidable weapon of combat. A Japanese officer without his sword was disgraced and lost face. So when I handle a GUNTO, I also think about the officer who carried it to war, and as such give it respect as he would have done. So Matthew, yours is not JUST a piece of war memorabilia, it represents a lot more than that. And 75 years ago, an officer cared for it, could have died with it........makes you think doesn't it. Neil.  

[Peter Bleed]

I feel like I am missing something here, BUT I do NOT see a "showa stamp." In fact an easy check of literature that should be handy to ALL OF US, suggests that there were a couple Edo and late Edo period smiths from Seki who signed Kanetaka. The signatures of the listed Showa era smith of that name do not look like this. In fact, I would bet that this is a shinto sword.

Peter

[vajo]

Good you speak it out Peter. The nakago also didn't look like a showa-to blade.

[Stephen]

I see a part struck sho stamp. Above to the right top hole. It needs the red rust wiped off

[EdWolf]

I’m with Peter and Chris. The blade does look much older. The two mekugi-ani doesn’t make sense when this piece is a ww2 example.

Regards,

Ed

[Dave R]

 There is something that looks like it might be a stamp, but what it really is I can't tell.

[PNSSHOGUN]

If we can get a closer look at that mark above the mei we can be certain.

[vajo]

Good eyes Stephen!

It looks really like a sho-stamp. A mystical blade indeed.

[Dave R]

 If it is a Sho stamp, then I suggest this. The blade was originally made for Buke-Zukuri mounts, as many were, and then fitted with Shin-Gunto Koshirae when the owner got his commission and went to war. This would also explain the better quality compared to the general run of swords from this smith.

[matthew]

hi all thanks for all your input on this blade I would really like to get to the bottom of this and to find as much as I can about this sword , I have uploaded a couple of pics of the stamp ,thanks

[matthew]

here is another picture which shows the stamp better ,I hope this helps

thanks

[matthew]

here is close up of the showa stamp , I am a novice in this area ,and wondered if they ever stamped an older blade with a showa stamp ?

thanks

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

While trying to keep an open mind to those suggesting an older blade, which now I think with these additional clear images has been put to rest, a reminder that as we evaluate swords it is important to keep in mind and separate those features which can be altered and those that can't or would be very difficult to alter without going through much difficulty. Holes, rust, can be doctored. For me the color of the steel definitely pointed away from an older blade, certainly not Shinto in my mind.

Edited November 16, 2017 by nagamaki - Franco

[vajo]

Dave did i understand it right that a sho stamp doesn't indicated a sword as non traditionell? This was a old prewar sword and got after fitted with war mounts his sho stamp?

[Stephen]

​ think he meant it was a civilian blade with sho stamp then fitted for gunto mounts 

[Dave R]

The "Sho" stamp is a manufacturers stamp, and means non traditional in some way. The STAR stamp mean that it is recognised as traditional (tamahagane) in manufacture by the IJA  procurement organisation.

 Non traditional covers a multitude of methods. Personally I do wonder how IJA officers saw this at the time, did they prefer a state of the art cutter, or a homage to their samurai tradition.  

[Dave R]

​ think he meant it was a civilian blade with sho stamp then fitted for gunto mounts 

Yep, exactly.

[Dave R]

here is close up of the showa stamp , I am a novice in this area ,and wondered if they ever stamped an older blade with a showa stamp ?

thanks

Why would this be done, traditional blades were generally more valued.

[Peter Bleed]

Good eye. Stephen. Thanks for moving us ahead. I just missed it. We all see it clearly now. But I think we all also agree that this does not look like a garden variety "Showa-to." A nice early War gunto, This certainly is a collectible sword.

Peter