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Best books for identifying tsuba.


DavidF

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Okay,

 

What are the best books for tsuba identification?

I expect Milt will have a definitive answer. :)

 

Please, include full name and title--so I can actually look the books up.

 

Thanks,

 

DaveF.

 

Actually the Daimyo Rich is the one to ask............there are so many books on tsuba but books can only give you a general idea. A lot rest on the feel/look of the iron which no books can convey adequately.

My suggestion is to go to sword shows, talk to the old timers, feel it, touch it ( ops, sound like The Who's ) and ask questions, look at collections.

 

Milt THE ronin

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Milt, perhaps you misunderstand what I'm asking. I've already have handled a lot of tsuba (including most of your collection) :oops: , but I would like to take this to the next level.

 

I'm more interested in knowing what's on your bookshelf? I've suddenly got access to some rare and hard-to-find books, and I want to know what books I should be looking for.

 

Thanks,

 

DaveF.

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be tempted to think David, if you have handled so many tsuba, you should have a good indication as to what is good and what is not, and accordingly, have a library to match that knowledge. In other words, you would know most of the books already available.

 

As Curran has already pointed out, the book list on Jim Gilbert's site is about as much as most of us need. If you can fluently read Japanese, then there will be more books. As it turns out though, many of them may not be as accurate as we hope.

 

Sorry if this seems abrupt, but when we think we are at a certain level, we need to stand back and evaluate exactly where it is, we are at. Milt's view of me knowing all the tosogu books is flattering but inaccurate. I am too just a beginner in tosogu.

 

Most of what's on my bookshelf is on Jim's list.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

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Dave -- Do you have a specific area of the field you are interested in? There are way too many to list. The problem you can run into with the older books is many poor attributions and the photography can be a little rough. Many of the books from arund 1900 are great if you are into researchimg European collections. The Joly books are interesting for this.

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be tempted to think David, if you have handled so many tsuba, you should have a good indication as to what is good and what is not, and accordingly, have a library to match that knowledge. In other words, you would know most of the books already available.

 

I already have an indication of what is good and what is not--thank you very much. What I don't have is attributions. :steamed: And I don't have a library to match, which is why I asked the question in the first place.

 

Sorry if this seems abrupt, but when we think we are at a certain level, we need to stand back and evaluate exactly where it is, we are at.

 

Naval gazing is not what I asked for. And BTW, it was because I did such an introspection that I assessed that I needed to read more. What I asked for is the "straight goods" from people in the field who have more experience than I. By feel I can already tell a good tsuba from a bad tsuba, but that was not what I was asking for--handling a tsuba will tell you it's composition, quality of patina, rough period of manufacturer, but it can remain silent regarding other particulars (e.g. name of the artist). And I do not I think that I'm an expert. I consider myself nothing but an amateur who has plateau'd in his learning and merely wishes to learn more. Thus, what I was asking was, if you had unrestricted access to, for example, the Library of Congress, which tsuba books would you be on the hunt for (books you cannot afford, books that are must haves for any collection, expert books in specialized fields of tuba research, etc)?

 

And I do believe that the question was germaine since while the NMB has a small but incomplete bibliography on blades, it lacks a comprehensive bibliography on kodogu. There are times, Rich, when you can act like a pompous twit, but I do appreciate the pointer to Gilbert's site. You guys do have the tendency to bash people who fail to buy books before their first Chinese crapper, and at the same time you hold out on those who ask for book recommendations; the attitude appears to be if you don't know, we're not going to tell you.

 

Thanks,

 

DaveF.

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temper, temper............. :badgrin:

 

you are always welcome to my home and look at the bookshelves, AND I can take the opportunity to sell you some tsuba.........

 

To be honest, books are fine but I find it hard to kantei the mumei ones based on book illustrations alone. I have a tsuba that screams Kanayama ( based on book illustration and the construction) and it turned " Ono " upon NTHK Jersey shinsa, well at least it's not a Bungo ( or Shoami ). :doubt:

 

 

milt THE ronin

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Oh -- I see -- well, I have to wonder if now after you've insulted Mr. Turner and have discovered the rest of we elitist's conspiracy to keep you from our closely guarded secrets you still want us to give you a shopping list so you can go around all of the hard, time consuming, and expensive work we've done?

Sorry -- I don't think so. Spend ten or twenty thou on books and figure it out the old fashioned way -- earn it.

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Milt, you're are a gracious gentlemen and an asset to the hobby. My wife and I have enjoyed your hospitality in the past, and we have both enjoyed learning what you've had to share (and buying your tsuba). :D We would be more than glad to accept your most kind offer at some later date.

 

Pete, I don't think there's any need to over-react. 8) And I would like to publicly apologize to our esteemed Mr. Turner, I just finsihed my midterm exams and was operating on less than 4 hours of sleep and was a bit tetchy. Perhaps I was also being presumptuous in thinking that people here would be willing to share their bibliographies. Although I have every intention of sharing my research as I gather and publish, I can understand where others would not be as open to sharing information. I respect the fact that people would not want to share their bibliographies, but then again I would have liked to take the hobby to the next level. If you don't want to share the intellectual wealth, I place no obligation upon you to do so.

 

IMHO, this hobby is more than just owning stuff (whether books or nihonto). I don't think there's any particular acheivement in the owning, rather if one is able to do quality research and then synthesize that research into something that benefits the greater community, then something has been acheived. If our hobby is nothing more than the accumulation of stuff, then all you have is dirt; because from the dirt nihonto came, and to the dirt it will eventually return. There must be more to a man than the sum of all his things.

 

Perhaps, I'm being idealistic, but I also seek not to be hypocritical about what is just a hobby. If I tell someone "go buy some books, before buying your first sword"; I should practice what I preach. I have some beginners books on swords and tsuba (and a few beginner's nihonto and tsuba), but I would like to take it to the next level. Sure, if you supply me with a bibliography, I still need to hunt said books down, spend money to loan them, read and evaluate them, and then decide which ones are appropriate for me to purchase. Okay, I admit I don't have $20,000 to spend on Nihonto books, but my guess is that neither did Pete when he first started out either. But what I am doing is leveraging off what I do have at my disposal to make wise purchases. This is not cheating or doing things the easy way; it is just wise stewardship. I'm not looking to take an easy way to learning. But why re-invent the wheel either? :)

 

 

DaveF.

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I think why Jim G's book list is relied on, is because there really are few kododgu guys. more to the point, what are your interests? kinko, sukashi, goto, higo, shoami (Eventhough we give them a bad name, they are consisdered to be very good and to be so proliferic for so long indicates they were considered good at least at some level). Are you looking for ko-, kyoto, etc. It seems that the better way to ask is in defining where you are looking to go. To be knowledgeable in them all is perhaps looking for a book that doesn't exist. Certainly there are similiar/copied shapes but because of seppa dai or size is classified as owari, while shoami, etc have their own. Maybe taking a 1 book on one school can give your more indepth learning into one school. Still I always find that mysterious chapters of information I would love to know what they are sayingl Even if books like shokei (sp?) give great examples for different schools, you are only getting a page or two on on the school which can make attribution very hard. However, relying on a book of all choshu with back up of handling kodugo of choshu. gives you a knowledge into that school. Then do the same for busho. If you can tell differences between these school, move on. There are perhaps more books on owari, kyoto, shoami (can't remember exact schools) that copied from each other so there are books that help differentiate their styles. There is more to handling and being able to tell good vs bad. Handling should help with age and point to those schools so that the books go hand in hand with the handling of the actual pieces. I wish I had instuction/instructor to help me through it all. just some thoughts.

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It seems I missed a lot in a few days away from the board.

 

I recommended Jim G's list because it is very good and most of what I would recommend would not improve on the list- but just be redundant. Also, given that so many of the texts are in Japanese-- I confess I cannot remember the name of many of them unless I am at home looking at my shelves. Even then... there are a few I have to get down and out of their protective boxes to read on the inside flap the name. For instance, I can never remember the correct name of "the blue Owari-den tsuba book" which may or may not be on Jim's list. And even after 8 years of active collecting, I am still finding there are books out there I did not know existed. It was only a few months ago that I became aware of a book dedicated specifically to Norisuke tsuba.

Some books took me years to track down. Until this year, my library expense eclipsed the value of my collection. And several people here have much larger libraries.

 

Also, tastes change. There are certain schools I have no more interest in- although I have books on them. For instance: I personally don't care much for Soten tsuba, but know I am in the minority. Do I NOT recommend such a book, even if the book itself is very good? And I have some books that I get a lot from, but I know others consider to be a borderline waste of paper. To recommend or not to recommend?

 

I've never completed a proper bibliography of my books, and I don't know who has other than Jim G. It is considerably easier to tell you what we think of specific books or tell what migh help with a specific interest. Assembling a bibliography can be considerable work.

Give respect to those who have done it. I tried once to properly catalog mine using Excel and confess I didn't get very far.

 

 

Curran

 

Ps. Milt- Your Ono is an odd one- but probably a good call. I said I thought maybe Yagyu. I don't know if I agree with the Ono call 100%. I need better Yagyu references. In your reference that shows a similar piece and says "Kanayama", I'd question the text or the attempt to jump from the 2-D reference text to your tsuba where so much of the evidence is in the mimi and the construction.

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For those who are not yet familiar with Jim Gilberts excellent tsuba site, and the bibliography...the webste is here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/tsuba.htm

and the bibliography of recommended books is at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/reading.htm

 

I am sure most are aware of it, but for the other newcommers, it is essential reading.

 

Regards,

Brian

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" Milt- Your Ono is an odd one- but probably a good call. I said I thought maybe Yagyu. I don't know if I agree with the Ono call 100%. I need better Yagyu references. In your reference that shows a similar piece and says "Kanayama", I'd question the text or the attempt to jump from the 2-D reference text to your tsuba where so much of the evidence is in the mimi and the construction.

_________________

Curran "

 

Hence the need to " fondle " , to touch and feel................

not unlike looking at Elle and see the skinnies.....but are they mostly dumb as a rock not knowing when to eat ?

 

Same as swords, books are fine but one needs to get hold of one early in the game just to keep the passion burning...............

 

milt THE ronin

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