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My First Sword Find. Help Id Please...

JPGH

By JPGH
in Military Swords of Japan

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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Hi everyone,

 

I'd like to start-off by saying I'm not a sword collector whatsoever. I ran across and purchased what appears to be my first ever authentic WWII period sword. It was purchased at a local sale here in my area and the folks selling it had no info/history other than it was part of a "house clean-out" were an elderly gentleman had passed away. 

 

I'm such a newbie,......I had to watch a Youtube video on how to take the sword part. Hopefully, I'll be able to put it back together correctly. 

 

After I took the sword apart, what I found was almost every piece has matching numbers and the blade is mark with what appears to be a black painted Japanese character ???

 

The hilt has a Japanese silver family Mon that I was able to ID. 

 

My question(s)..... is the sword of the WWII era? If so, can you all please share your thoughts on the who, what, when and where? Last, is it possible for someone to please help me ID the Mon?

 

The size of the blade only (because I haven't put the sword back together as of yet) is approx: 26-1/4 inches.

 

Thank you all so much for your time and I look forward to your replies. 

 

Regards,

Jo

 

 

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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A wakizashi? Please measure from the tip of the blade (kissaki) to the notch on the back (mune-machi). Measurement is called nagasa, as seen below:

 

https://goo.gl/images/m4kn7S

 

The mounting is WWII era, the blade is older.

 

Thank you and thanks for the breakdown and link.

 

The size using the link you posted is approx: 19-1/2 inches.

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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Thanks JoJo

 

yes i place it from the late 1500s from the look of the patina. Well done on this find!

 

OMG!

 

Are you kidding me? That is awesome! Thank you so much!

 

A couple steps behind me at the sale, there was an experienced older buyer who I've seen and/or know of for many years that buys almost everything military (WWII or older) related. He asked to see the sword after I purchased it, looked it over and said: "it's a nice wall hanger....tourist piece made in the Philippines, 1980s....nicely done,....worth maybe $40 - $50....I'll give you that if you want to re-sell?". 

 

Feeling a bit discouraged, I kindly thanked him and moved-on about the sale looking for other items to purchase with sword in-hand. I had a feeling this piece might be period (WWII) but had not a clue it (blade) could be that old! Thank you so much for time and help. Most, most appreciated!

 

Do you or anyone else here have any thoughts on what that black painted character represents or can help with ID'ing the Mon?

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Death-Ace Rising Star

Death-Ace

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OMG!

 

Are you kidding me? That is awesome! Thank you so much!

 

A couple steps behind me at the sale, there was an experienced older buyer who I've seen and/or know of for many years that buys almost everything military (WWII or older) related. He asked to see the sword after I purchased it, looked it over and said: "it's a nice wall hanger....tourist piece made in the Philippines, 1980s....nicely done,....worth maybe $40 - $50....I'll give you that if you want to re-sell?".

 

Feeling a bit discouraged, I kindly thanked him and moved-on about the sale looking for other items to purchase with sword in-hand. I had a feeling this piece might be period (WWII) but had not a clue it (blade) could be that old! Thank you so much for time and help. Most, most appreciated!

 

Do you or anyone else here have any thoughts on what that black painted character represents or can help with ID'ing the Mon?

Man, thats a shame that someone would try to do that. Shows there are collectors, even experienced ones who'll try to cheat someone out of a good deal. We all know them and I've had my run-ins with a few. My policy, even if its someone wanting info or prices, being truthful is the best thing to do.

 

Very nice first piece! These crew mounted wakizashi are definitely my favorite, having had three (one was a low quality koto blade, the next a Shinto Kashu O-Wakizashi, and the current being a possible Uda school O-Suriage). Any way we could get anothet pic of the blade's hamon and hada if you get the chance?

 

Definitely high quality Type 98 mounts with a nice mumei, ubu nakago. Great deal! Isopropyl Alcohol of the highest percentage and a good oil utilizing a microfiber cloth is definitely recommended!

 

I'm sure someone will pitch in shortly to help with the mon, but in the meantime, enjoy! And welcome to the world of nihonto!

 

Lev

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Stephen Grand Master

Stephen

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paint is just a stocking or order marke/number.

 

What a crook, glad you didn't fall for that one. Yes now time to show any activity in the blade. be sure to show tip and if you can capture boshi, if the nakago hasn't been altered it points to Bizen smith.

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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Man, thats a shame that someone would try to do that. Shows there are collectors, even experienced ones who'll try to cheat someone out of a good deal. We all know them and I've had my run-ins with a few. My policy, even if its someone wanting info or prices, being truthful is the best thing to do.

 

Very nice first piece! These crew mounted wakizashi are definitely my favorite, having had three (one was a low quality koto blade, the next a Shinto Kashu O-Wakizashi, and the current being a possible Uda school O-Suriage). Any way we could get anothet pic of the blade's hamon and hada if you get the chance?

 

Definitely high quality Type 98 mounts with a nice mumei, ubu nakago. Great deal! Isopropyl Alcohol of the highest percentage and a good oil utilizing a microfiber cloth is definitely recommended!

 

I'm sure someone will pitch in shortly to help with the mon, but in the meantime, enjoy! And welcome to the world of nihonto!

 

Lev

 

 

Thank you!

 

Yes, he tried to get one over on me, sad! 

 

My apologies. I'm finding myself having to Google the many number of sword terms you all are using to affectively reply. 

 

Also, it's quite difficult for me to capture good, clear and up-close images of the blade request. Below is the best I can do for now. Sadly, as you can see, there's a small chip. I hope these images help?

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post-2821-0-76898100-1507497761_thumb.jpg

post-2821-0-86277600-1507497768_thumb.jpg

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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paint is just a stocking or order marke/number.

 

What a crook, glad you didn't fall for that one. Yes now time to show any activity in the blade. be sure to show tip and if you can capture boshi, if the nakago hasn't been altered it points to Bizen smith.

 

Thank you and I've added some images. Hopefully, they'll help?

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seattle1 Experienced

seattle1

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Hello Jo:

 You are getting a lot of helpful comment. As for the "mon", while it could be such there are two kanji that could be used in a name, "naga" and "ta", which could be someone's surname, but I doubt it is a mon in the usual sense of the term. I checked the most commonly used mon book, Hawley's, and no family appears to have use those two kanji as a family mon. Perhaps a more comprehensive one would show it as a mon, so this is just a guess.

 Arnold F.

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Tanto54 Mentor

Tanto54

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Dear JoJo,

 

I may be wrong, but it looks like you might have used some kind of cleaner (later pictures in your post make the hamon (temper line) look more "etched" than in earlier posted pictures).  Please follow the instructions that Grey pointed you to.  Any attempts to "clean" or "polish" the blade could destroy its value.  Go slow... 

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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Hello Jo:

 You are getting a lot of helpful comment. As for the "mon", while it could be such there are two kanji that could be used in a name, "naga" and "ta", which could be someone's surname, but I doubt it is a mon in the usual sense of the term. I checked the most commonly used mon book, Hawley's, and no family appears to have use those two kanji as a family mon. Perhaps a more comprehensive one would show it as a mon, so this is just a guess.

 Arnold F.

 

Thank you so much for helping. I'll do some research and see if I can find anything given the information you so kindly provided. 

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JPGH Enthusiast

JPGH

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Dear JoJo,

 

I may be wrong, but it looks like you might have used some kind of cleaner (later pictures in your post make the hamon (temper line) look more "etched" than in earlier posted pictures).  Please follow the instructions that Grey pointed you to.  Any attempts to "clean" or "polish" the blade could destroy its value.  Go slow... 

 

I promise, I've done nothing!

 

I just picked this piece up yesterday and was even afraid to try and take it apart until watching the video. 

 

The only thing I've done was wipe my fingerprints off with an old t-shirt after handling striving to answer image request from you all. I wouldn't dare try cleaning something as old as this on my own. No way! I'm even afraid to try an put the piece back together since taking it apart. 

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Shamsy Mentor

Shamsy

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I held off as long as possible... But can we please stop calling every wakizashi in military mounts a crew gunto? They are just military wak instead of katana. Crew implies that they're specifically for vehicle crew, which has been so completely disproved by now it is misleading to people seeking information.

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Stephen Grand Master

Stephen

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I held off as long as possible... But can we please stop calling every wakizashi in military mounts a crew gunto? They are just military wak instead of katana. Crew implies that they're specifically for vehicle crew, which has been so completely disproved by now it is misleading to people seeking information.

Thank you Steve! this term surfaced   few years ago and gets used on every short gunto. 

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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I held off as long as possible... But can we please stop calling every wakizashi in military mounts a crew gunto? They are just military wak instead of katana. Crew implies that they're specifically for vehicle crew, which has been so completely disproved by now it is misleading to people seeking information.

Shamsy

a Wak is not a regular Gunto.

Ohmura wrotes:  "The formality Guntō was based on the commonsense size for the army and 

the navy. A "commonsense size" means the blade of 62-3cm, and mounting around 100cm in full length. In Japanese, this size is called "Jōhsun." This size was carried out based on the Uchigatana of the Edo period. "
 
" The officer of arming which has restrictions in battle habitation space had the necessary short Guntō."  That is, they are crews, such as a flight, a tank, and a submarine. From this, the short Guntō came to be called a common name "Crew Guntō." 
 
For me it is a typical crew gunto. And this is not a bad thing  ;-)
 
 
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