
#1
Posted 24 September 2017 - 11:31 AM
I think I've come across one in bronze, but can't find any period Japanese examples.
Thanks much,
Yamabiru
#2
Posted 24 September 2017 - 07:16 PM
Indeed, I posted an image of a set of gunner's tools that included a ladle. It is still there in the NMB archives. under the tag line
"Matagi gunner's tools" of something like that.I have seen a couple of these ladles but that have all been iron.
Skeptical re: bronze. . .
Please shwo us an image
Peter
#3
Posted 24 September 2017 - 07:25 PM
- Admin -
#4
Posted 25 September 2017 - 02:45 AM
平常心 Heijoshin
#6
Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:00 PM

#7
Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:34 AM
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平常心 Heijoshin
#8
Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:39 AM
A couple here, again both iron:
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平常心 Heijoshin
#9
Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:04 PM

I think you might be on to something regarding the twisted handle absorbing some of the heat generated from the fire.
Jan
#10
Posted 26 September 2017 - 05:11 PM
PS Rereading your question it was the ladle you were asking about, not so much the mold. Apologies. I guess the twist in Jan's example above would also help to dissipate creeping heat in the handle.
A couple here, again both iron:
Piers, I have seen some recently made reproductions without a handle or ones that are riveted together but have you seen any authentic, antique ones without a handle other than ones with the wood handle that has come off over time or where they have been riveted together rather than being one solid piece of metal?
The sharp edges and complete lack of signs of use make me doubt the age of this all metal one, the rivets look new, not worn at all.
#11
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:42 AM
What I got ain't what u got I see that now.
I found one example on the net in horrible condition, just says medieval miniature bronze ladle.
I'm thinking mine must be for medicine or something else now , after seeing your pics.
#12
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:44 AM
#13
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:46 AM
Mine is like this but in good cond, with a shorter handle stem, I'm trying to upload, sorry
#14
Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:03 AM
As with many rare things, Eric, yes, we need to keep our eyes peeled for more recent reproductions slipping in.
平常心 Heijoshin
#15
Posted 27 September 2017 - 10:06 AM
Jan
#16
Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:15 AM
One small point is that unless the bronze ladle is oxidised, lead would stick to it, as would solder. Perhaps it was for melting wax or some similar purpose.
Ian Bottomley
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#17
Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:47 AM
#18
Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:52 AM
#19
Posted 27 September 2017 - 04:18 PM
平常心 Heijoshin
#20
Posted 27 September 2017 - 04:48 PM
You are correct. It could equally have been made in Hakata. It is described as an 柄杓 eshaku or handled ladle.
Thanks for the reply. Sorry if I sounded snippy.
#21
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:42 PM
I guess I should have posted both sides. Judging by the overall condition plus the fact that this ladle was given as a present from one of the leading authorities of this field in Japan, I'm very comfortable to date this as a Bakumatsu-period piece.
Jan
Jan, your new image does show that it has been used. I am always a bit skeptical about blindly trusting "leading authorities", they do get things wrong and since they are seen as authorities people often hesitate to question them. I could give several examples of such glaring errors. With so few actual known examples of these ladles in the first place it is not surprising that this riveted type with no wooden grip has not been seen before (at least by me), always good to see something different come up. This is also a good example of why I tell people if at all possible to get good, clear, detailed images from all sides of any item they intend to purchase.
#22
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:48 PM
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#23
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:53 PM
http://museum.city.f.../233/index.html
Mine is like this but in good cond, with a shorter handle stem, I'm trying to upload, sorry
Good detective work.
- yamabiru likes this
#24
Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:58 PM
Hmmm... the example in that link is a Chinese bronze ladle, an example of goods once traded between Hakata/Fukuoka and the continent.
As with many rare things, Eric, yes, we need to keep our eyes peeled for more recent reproductions slipping in.
Piers, for research purposes, if you ever run across another example like Jan's ladle in anyones collection, exhibit etc it would be nice to have it mentioned.
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