Help With Sword Identification

[rjhancock]

Hello all,

 

I'm hoping y'all can help me identify one of the 5 swords we found in our garage when we bought the place in January. The other 4 we've identified as Spanish in origin and most likely replicas for display. This 5th one however we are unsure of. We do believe it to be Japanese in origin based on markings. From what research we've done, appears to be late 19th, early 20th century. But this is the extent of what we know.

 

As for removing the handle to show the tang, I do not feel confident in my abilities to do so with damaging the sword. My goal with this sword (as with the others) is to take care of them and place them on display in our house. 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciative.

 

Higher resolution versions can be found here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2h70q4yicjefldz/AAB_mQTMJWVqDocROQxRdTC0a?dl=0

 

 

[Geraint]

Hi Richard.

 

(Please add your name to your posts as we all do.)  You will find a ton of information here, http://ohmura-study.net/962.html

 

Nothing to be gained by removing the hilt in this case.

 

All the best.

[rjhancock]

Thanks Geraint, that helped tremendously. And sorry about not adding my name. I figured since registration asked for a name it would automatically display.

 

I’ll look through that link some more and see if I can find some care instructions for this sword.

 

- Richard

[Bruce Pennington]

Richard, you have a 1899 pattern, or Model 32, NCO sabre. The center stamp is of the Tokyo Army Artillery arsenal, the rest are believed to be inspector stamps. There were two versions, the "Ko" was longer at 39" and the "Otsu" was shorter at 36". The Ko was carried by cavalry and the Otsu was for artillery and others on foot. They made them from 1899 to 1936, but were carried throughout WWII.

[rjhancock]

Thanks Bruce. I can confirm it's the "Otsu" version. Just can't tell of it's the 1899 pattern or Model 32 (wont have more time to look it up until tonight). 

 

This is far more information than I've been able to find on my own. Seriously, thank you for this.

 

- Richard

[Shamsy]

Bruce is not saying it is either a 1899 or Type 32, he is telling you both designations for the same sword. They're very common and not particularly desired by collectors. Great swords though.

[rjhancock]

Ahh. Learning lots today.

 

I was planning on keeping the sword as this house used to belong to my parents. They left a lot of stuff including this sword and 4 others here.

 

The next thing on my list is proper care for display.

 

- Richard

[lonely panet]

few more points.

 

your saya is a KO version as they have a smaller drag on the scabbard compared to the otsu.

there should be numbers on the drag to match the blade. (mis-matched numbers are very common and make the value much lower) Also bruce is stating the whole sword lengths but check the blade lengths to clarify. KO should be approx. 32.5 inches

 

yours id dated taisho + 3

 

taisho is 1912 plus 3 =1915

 

the two titles of the sword come from the 2 most read books on military swords, the older guys who read the Fuller & Greg books call it a 1899 troopers sword and the newer guys who read the Jim Dawsons book call it a type 32.

but they are essentially the same sword

[rjhancock]

Blade length is about 30.5 inches with total length being right at 36 inches.

 

Serial numbers on blade and scabared (drag?) do not match.

[Bruce Pennington]

That's an Otsu alright. Non-matching number s isn't unusual, You're lucky its in a model 32 scabbard! My Otsu is in a model 19 scabbard - which is totally wrong!

 

Of the 500,000 swords collected at the end of the war, many were not in scabbards at all and G.I.s would simply grab one to fit the blade they had. I also wonder whether, over the span of 3 wars that some of the swords served in, if a trooper might have taken damage to

a scabbard and, in the field, replaced it with whatever was at hand. We will never know. But what we DO know is that both peices were genuine Japanese war weapons.

[rjhancock]

On inspection of the blade it does look like it may have been sharpened in a haste with whatever was laying around.

 

Still don’t know much history on it (as to how it came into possession of my step father).

 

But all this is just down right great.

 

Any suggestions on care?

[Shamsy]

Of the 500,000 swords collected at the end of the war, many were not in scabbards at all and G.I.s would simply grab one to fit the blade they had.

 

That's a bit of a myth I'm afraid. The separation is mostly post war, though in the case of type 32, which are rigidly uniformed, it's possible that replacement scabbards and swords were mismatched in the field. Were they returned to an arsenal they would have been re-stamped.

 

I'm afraid I cannot remember where I read that, but it was a good source (maybe Nick?) that I trusted. So while I have nothing to back it up, I believe this to be the case.

[IJASWORDS]

Pictured are of my type 32 KO, 32.5 inch blade. It has two crossed out numbers on one side of the drag, and a matching number on the other side, 13047. Same font and size as blade numbers. Help in identifying hand guard markings would be helpful. Neil.