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Help With Identification / Translation


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#1 Pet Dragon

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:05 PM

Hello,
I am new to the message board and new to the fantastic world of the Nihonto. I was given a sword that my grandfather brought back from WW2. The sword was in my fathers possession for many years before he gave it to me. I tucked it away in a closet, as did my father and forgot about it. Years later, after cleaning out my closet I decided to look into the sword and see if there was any value in it. This led me on a great journey to understand more about the sword and the guy who brought it back, my grandfather. After scouring the Internet for a month, I came to the conclusion that I was in the possession of a Unsigned Non-Traditional Type 94 Shin-Gunto, this is a newbie guess on my part. There are matching assembly numbers on the Tsuba, Seppa and Ireko-saya. One of the mysteries that my research has not revealed are the IIII II/ markings the sword possesses; these markings are on different pieces. My initial thought was this is a signature of some sort, but I'm still unclear as to it's meaning.


32.jpg25.jpg

I have posted many pictures of the sword on my website. http://www.auctionyo....com/sword.html; click on a picture to supersize it, then you can zoom in even closer. The pictures of interest are #7 the Kuchi gane (IIII II/ markings), #13 the Chuso (Translation?), #14 the Fuchi (Translation?), #27 the Nakago just below the Mekugi-ana (Looks like a X or Cross?), #31 and 32 the Nakago (IIII II/ markings), and #33 and 34 the Habaki (IIII II/ markings).

Any information on this sword would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Dave

Dave

#2 Pet Dragon

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:23 PM

Sorry for the huge pictures, I thought I knew what I was doing.


Dave

#3 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:11 PM

Dave, it does look like a Type 94 Shingunto. The lower ashi should be removable. The upper is not. The paint on the nakago matches the hash marks on the edge of the habaki and are factory assembly marks. I have a navy gunto with similar hash marks in the habaki. I'll have to see if they match the marks on the nakago! The marks on the chuso are upside down in your picture, if you flip it, you can see they are a Japanese "7" and 4 hashmarks, matching the rest of the marks on the gunto.

Nice gunto! Interesting to see the short kissaki.

#4 Shamsy

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:29 PM

Hi Dave,

As you already astutely pointed out, the funny officers sword I have of some unknown pattern has these markings too. Since Bruce, yourself and I all have examples now, nor are they unique, it would seem apparent that there is some significance to them. However, what they are I do not know!

I would have thought assembly control of some kind, except that this is a sword still in 94 mounts, suggesting very early as these katana style swords go. This is not even mentioning that they are all different styles.

These marks are not documented anywhere that I am aware of. Let me make some enquiries.

Cheers, Steve
Steve
Collecting Type 95 NCO swords

#5 Pet Dragon

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:31 AM

Bruce, Steve,

 

Thank you for the information, I appreciate and value your input. I've searched many, many, hours on the Internet that led me to a post on this message board by Steve http://www.militaria...t-weight-gunto/ , who's sword markings are almost identical.

 

Bruce, Thank you for the translation on the Chuso! Did you happen to look at the Fuchi? I would like to see the markings on you're sword if you could point me to a post or have pictures.

 

Steve, I wish you best of luck with your enquiries; I hope you find some explanation. I will continue to reach out to my Father and Uncles for information on my sword. I know my Grandfather fought in the battle of Iwo Jima, he was part of the 5th Marine Division and is name is listed in this book https://archive.org/...age/n1/mode/2up Other than that, I know very little about him and the sword.

 

Regards,

Dave


Dave

#6 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:17 PM

Dave, it was on the habaki of an old Koto blade fitted as a navy gunto. The seemingly Roman numerals "XXX I" match the "31" on the seppa.

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#7 Pet Dragon

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 01:04 PM

Bruce,

 

This makes total sense to me now. If X = 10 then, \ would = 5. So then, \II IIII would = 74, matching the rest of the sword. Odd that there is very little information about such markings. Does this point to where the sword was made or when it was made; pre shortage?

 

Thanks a bunch!

Dave


Dave




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