Is This Blade Machine Made Or Traditional?

[vfox]

Hello,

 

Based on these images, is it possible to tell whether this blade was traditionally or machine made?

 

 

 

Thanks,

Jay

 

[vajo]

Machine made.

[vfox]

Appreciate the speedy reply.

 

Could I please also get an opinion on whether these blades are traditionally or machine made?

 

#1

 

#2

 

They are from guntos.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Jay

[Shugyosha]

I can't see anything to indicate anything other than non-traditionally made blades.

[vajo]

Jay they have been destroyed because they are not traditionell made.

The last ones could be hand forged, but they all has been judged as non traditionell.

 

Do you collect these parts of trash?

[obiwanknabbe]

If you want to get a really good idea of what is going on inside that steel.. polish the flat cut to 3000 grit and then submerge in 1/3 soloution ferric chloride and warm water for a few mins..  The metal structure will pop.

 

Kurt K

[vfox]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

Unfortunately, owning swords in my country is difficult since they need to be licensed. Thus I am only able to collect koshirae with either broken or wooden blades.

 

Still better than nothing!

[Brian]

Ok..but how about telling us what that country is?

[Brian]

Machine made.

How many machine made wakizashi have you seen?

This doesn't appear to be an altered katana. Hence it is likely antique and handmade.

[Dave R]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it any and every unlicensed blade gets the cut. So it could simply be that the original owner in Japan failed to license the blade, either because he did not have the money, or did not want to go to the trouble. 

[vajo]

How many machine made wakizashi have you seen?

This doesn't appear to be an altered katana. Hence it is likely antique and handmade.

 

Some, they made a lot of short gunto for tank crews, pilots and submarine crews. It is not antique. It's a showa to blade.

 

@Dave

I can't belive that the goverment destroy important antique blades. In Germany the goverment collect unlicensed weapons and get them in a auction. 

[Lineaments]

I am curious to understand how some judge these blades as machine made with such self-confidence.

The #2 is even having a welding flaw, so it indicates a "handmade" in my eyes.

Also, why presume they are cut in half by the government?

Some cut their own swords to be able to keep them during the occupation, so not only un-traditional swords got cut. Or perhaps they are broken in battle

[vajo]

There are two terms traditionell and machine made. 

These cut blades are all indicated as none traditionell made.

 

There are many very nice gunto none traditionell made. For me it is machine made if the smith uses a steam hammer. There is a wide range in that term. These blades are checked, judged and destroyed.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF7X5fxM64k

 

For my opinion machine made Japanese knifes. Are they bad? Of course not. They are great!

[TheGermanBastard]

I do not see why these blades ought to be machine made for sure.

 

Atleast on blade 1) I am 99.9 sure it is NOT machine made ... Hirazukuri and pre Showa Periode ...

 

But in my humble oppinion it does not really matter because all you have there is a partial metal tsunagi. As a Nihonto there is no more value in them.

[vajo]

What is your explanation of machine made?

Maybe i had some different understandig.

 

For me traditionell forging include all aspects. From praying and cleaning before begining, up to the last stage of polishing.

 

Machine made can be all. Maybe the most think it is only oil hardening?

[Stephen]

Dead swords, RIP. Do as Kurk suggested, polish the ends. really not worth it tho, as in what diff does it make?

[TheGermanBastard]

What is your explanation of machine made?

Maybe i had some different understandig.

 

For me traditionell forging include all aspects. From praying and cleaning before begining, up to the last stage of polishing.

 

Machine made can be all. Maybe the most think it is only oil hardening?

 

I am subjective now. Oil Hardneing = Showato but still blade can be handmade.

 

Machine made = Likely no Thamagane used and no "classic" construction with soft core and hard sell but just cut / hammered from one piece of steel and no folding at all. or in other word: A piece of stell shaped like a Katana and a fake Hamon either etched or roughly polished.

[vfox]

@Brian: I am from Singapore. To my understanding the licensing process to own a blade here is fairly troublesome and I am not prepared to go through that hassle... for now. I am limited to blade lengths of less than 30cm.

 

To my understanding thus far, the guntos are "handmade", but not "traditionally made". So they were probably made post-Edo.

[Dave R]

Some, they made a lot of short gunto for tank crews, pilots and submarine crews. It is not antique. It's a showa to blade.

 

@Dave

I can't belive that the goverment destroy important antique blades. In Germany the goverment collect unlicensed weapons and get them in a auction. 

 

 Short Shin-Gunto usually have an old blade in them, a re-purposed Wakizashi for the most part. I will point out though that the 24 inch 61 centimetre rule for the Daito is a modern one. IJA regulations considered 21.5 inches to be the minimum regulation length for an officers Shin-Gunto.

 Japan is not Germany, they have a lot of old swords and while they "might" have a special regard for certain great names, a perusal on this site will reveal a lot of cut off old blades.

 As for Showa era manufacturing methods.........

[Brian]

Correct, that is almost surely an antique blade and not a Showato. Maybe in Gunto mounts, but much earlier blade.

[vajo]

Thanks Dave for the information.

[Shamsy]

Just an aside that I used to own a wakizashi with the... Seki? wartime stamp, indicating it was non traditionally made. However, I agree with Brian that these go against the norm.