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Buying Gimei


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#1 obiwanknabbe

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 07:32 AM

I once again defer to the vast knowledge of the members here in asking the following:

 

Is buying a sword with gimei signature necessarily something to avoid?

 

I am looking at a blade on AOI that for all intents and purposes looks pretty wonderful.. They openly state that they dont trust the Mei. This being the case, what is the move as a matter of course? What is the general consensus on great swords with questionable mei?

 

This is the blade in question....

 https://www.aoijapan...sunot-guarantee16694-2.jpg


Kurt Knabbe


#2 Brian

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:17 AM

It needs a naginata hi, then I wouldn't be able to resist it :)
If you buy it as though it's mumei, i don't see why not. All looks very nice.


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#3 sabiji

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:12 AM

I´m very sure that is not a Migi Mutsu. But that is not the question. I own a sword with "unsafe" signature, which I llike very, very well.

But at one point I would ask Mr. Tsuruta: i see a gap in the Hamon (Oshigata) slightly below the Monouchi. I hope this is only a "mistake" when drawing the Oshigata and no Nioigire...


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#4 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:40 AM

Hello,

 

There are great swords with questionable mei, the real question here is is this a great sword? Or even a "good" sword? Also, keep in mind that if you buy a gimei sword, you should plan on owning it for the foreseeable future.


Edited by nagamaki - Franco, 05 September 2017 - 09:44 AM.

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#5 Brian

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:08 AM

Hello,

....the real question here is is this a great sword? Or even a "good" sword? Also, keep in mind that if you buy a gimei sword, you should plan on owning it for the foreseeable future.

No..the question is, are they charging for a great sword....or even a good sword?
At roughly $3500, and saying it is ok for IAI, they are telling you it is an entry level sword. I think at that price, it has nice lines, but you are not getting some work of art. I just like the shape. But make no mistake, they are telling you outright not to expect too much.


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#6 vajo

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:02 AM

Nice Sword, nice Koshirae, nice price. Why not?
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#7 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:31 AM

Seems like a decent sword. I would strike off the mei personally.


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#8 vajo

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:24 PM

There are some generations of kaneyasu. It's is what it is. A nice shinto sword.



#9 Brian

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:49 PM

There are some generations of kaneyasu. It's is what it is. A nice shinto sword.

Shinto. Not new sword-sword. :)
Personally, looks Shinshinto to me.


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#10 sabiji

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 03:18 PM

I agree. In my opinion this is Shinshinto.

 

I know only 3 Generations Kaneyasu: Tegai Kaneyasu arround Sue Koto/Keicho, Hidari Mutsu and Migi Mutsu.


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#11 obiwanknabbe

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:16 PM

Just a side question,,   The mei on this , TO MY EYES, seems expertly cut.. someone took a lot of time to make a fake signature. I realize the intent behind doing so but have any of you seen gimei that are so cleanly done? Def more that a 6pack of beer and a pizza type job. 

 

Kurt

 

Also, if i do buy it, after negotiating the price down a bit, i plan on keeping it.. I dont buy swords to flip them. These are for my appreciation and study alone. I still have every blade i ever bought. 


Kurt Knabbe


#12 BulletSprinkler

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

Just a side question,,   The mei on this , TO MY EYES, seems expertly cut.. someone took a lot of time to make a fake signature. I realize the intent behind doing so but have any of you seen gimei that are so cleanly done? Def more that a 6pack of beer and a pizza type job. 

 

Kurt

 

Also, if i do buy it, after negotiating the price down a bit, i plan on keeping it.. I dont buy swords to flip them. These are for my appreciation and study alone. I still have every blade i ever bought. 

 

I have a Yamato daijo fujiwara masanori, that has a well cut sig, and all other traits suggest it being a ydfm, nakagojiri, yasurimei, etc are all correct, other people that looked at it thought it was legit. Took it to shinsa and they said it was from Kambun, Echizen Seki smith but failed the sig as gimei. 

20170416_022455.jpg


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#13 Vermithrax16

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:04 AM

Interested in this topic as I bought a gimei sword a while ago (knew it was, it was stated as such, and just to be sure had that confirmed as of late as I consider removal).

 

It's a beautiful sword but that false signature is really annoying. I appreciate the blade, and all the features. I know what school made it, and it's all there. But for a few dollars more could have skipped this frustration. As a new nihonto follower, going forward will stick to verified, papered blades.

 

All that was about my gimei experience. The OP posted an interesting piece and all the info is up front. If he likes it, go for it, but I wish I could back and not pull that trigger.


Jeremiah

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#14 Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 06:16 PM

Well, Kurt, I beg to disagree. Fight the urge to buy, save the cash and after 3 of these exercises you'll be able to pick up a really good one cause quality over quantity:

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#15 obiwanknabbe

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 07:16 PM

Im still thinking about it.. I am presently negotiating with AOI. So far they have come down on price and are offering to throw in a fresh polish (shiagetogi).

 

Right now my thinking is that if i can get it for a steal, and enjoy the blade, then the signature is not really that important (May as well be Mumei) . I do agree with Carlo's notion of quantity vs quality, but it also seems that blades of this style, with papers, dont come around often and tend to sell for FAR more than I can afford.. ($8k+) .. 20 years ago i may have been able to get them on the cheep, but if what others have said about this current market trend being on the down side, prices are only going to go up from here... or is my thinking flawed?  To draw a parallel, is it better to have and enjoy a nicely made `66 Cobra kit car or keep dreaming about one day owning a 427 Shelby?

 

Mulling it over.. All of your thoughts and feedback are welcome.

 

Kurt k


Kurt Knabbe


#16 Ken-Hawaii

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 09:20 PM

 

Right now my thinking is that if i can get it for a steal, and enjoy the blade

Kurt, I think what Carlo is saying is that you can't use a low-end blade to learn how to appreciate what a high-end "elite" blade will offer to you.

 

If you're willing to settle for buying "kit-car" quality, & the real thing comes along, how would you pay for it?

 

Ken

 

 



#17 Vermithrax16

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:18 AM

I have been told by many the AOI polish is not a good idea, but never seen one for real, so just mentioning it as maybe something to ask around about.

 

Car analogies are very tough with nihonto and I am a huge car nut (have a 2014 Camaro SS, with a LOT of mods, around 500hp at the wheels). Get the best sword you can afford for your price range you feel comfortable buying at. Some even say that quality does not start until around swords in the $20-35k range. Well, that's just not reality for many collectors either by means or desire to spend that much. I got the Camaro (ordered as I wanted it, $43k) but I did not get the Stingray Corvette ($89k). No doubt a better "quality" car, but not the car that I wanted down deep in my heart. 


Jeremiah

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#18 AnAmNeSiS

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 04:43 AM

Forgive the newbie question here . . . but if you try and send this to shinsa and it fails because of the mei, you can take off the mei and it will get papered then?  Or can a sword get papered with Gimei?  

 

Best Wishes


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#19 Vermithrax16

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:07 AM

No gimei can be papered. Removed, depends on sword.
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Jeremiah

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#20 vajo

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:33 PM

Kurt have you bought it?



#21 J Reid

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 03:38 AM

For $3500 you could dig up a papered and polished piece on eBay.. or from AOI! I see them all the time. Why would you consider buying a questionable blade at that price point? Maybe if it was $1000-$1500.. but even then, personally, I would struggle to go for it. I would rather go for a nice wakizashi. Hold on to your money and keep searching! The market is at an all time low. Take advantage of that.
Josh Reid

#22 BulletSprinkler

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:45 PM

Buy the sword not the signature.

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#23 Pete Klein

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 01:08 AM

"Buy the sword not the signature".

 

Capon's lament...


“I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it.” ...

Miss Mae West





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