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Help Identifying This Sword And Putting A Price On It


Dan512

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Hi guys,

 

I´m new to this board. I have been collecting knives since I was a teenager, and have always been fascinated by samurais swords. Now 25 years later, I have some more means and since a friend if mine spend a year in Japan recently, I asked him if he could source me a nice ancient armor and a sword, to put up in my house. I am willing to spend some money on it, as I intend to keep it, also as sort of an invest that maintains it's value.

 

My friend has an aquaintance in Japan who is a travel guide for foreign high rollers, and also takes them to antique shops if they want to spend some money there.

 

He just send me some details on a sword (and on an armor, l'll write a second thread for that) that was offered to him.

 

I don't have a huge number of details yet, but what I have never seen before is a katana with a metal tsuka (if you still call it that) or this type of tsuba. What strikes me is that the saya seems to be much longer than the blade.

 

Here is what I got so far from the guide.

 

The sword dates to roughly 1870-1880, not long after the Meiji Restoration.

It bears the Imperial Chrysanthemum crest, and most likely was presented as a gift by the Meiji Emperor. While the saya scabbard is gorgeously decorated with gold maki-e lacquer work, the blade is a true shinken sword, fully sharpened - so it would need to treated with the utmost care and respect. The sword blade is unsigned, so the smith unknown, but the work is very fine. The blade comes with a torokosho registration from the Japanese government (photo #10).

 

Asking price is 950,000 ¥

 

He will be back at the shop next week and can ask all the questions I want, which is where I need your help.

 

Can anyone help me out and provide some insight.

 

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Dan,

 

All depends on what you are interested in: blade or mounts or both.

 

The mounts of this blade (koshirae) are made to accompany an armour. The blade is made to hold everything together and is of very low quality. In fact, you are paying the Koshirae, the lacquer work. It is not an antiques.

 

But the pictures as for the armour don't show enough details

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Hi Dan,

 

Welcome to the Board.

 

I think that the advice that you got regarding the potential armour purchase is good: wait a while.

 

The reason that you haven't seen a katana with this kind of tsuka or tsuba is that this is a tachi koshirae. I wouldn't read anything into saya having a chrysanthemum crest - it almost certainly has nothing to do with the imperial family and the fittings may be more modern than the blade - see below.

 

My feeling about the package is that it is a piece to attract tourists, whether tourists from the 1880's or modern day in this shop. The blade is a mixture of steels which creates the grain that stands out and gives the appearance somewhat like Damascus steel. This is a pointer to its age being as advertised but (for me anyway) isn't particularly easy on the eye and the whole thing is a bit "bling".

 

The blade is unsigned and is quite short (not things that enhance value in this time period) - the paperwork says 64.6cm. The tang is crudely finished with a second mekugi ana over the first one. This might be an indicator that the koshirae isn't original to the blade or may have been done to create a semblance of age.

 

For the price being asked, you can get a very nice package with a genuine samurai period sword (this blade is dated to after the law banning the wearing of Japanese swords) in a good Edo period katana koshirae, signed and with authentication papers. What's in the picture is the Torokusho which is just the registration document required by the Japanese authorities and you shouldn't receive this with the blade as it has to be surrendered when it is exported.

 

Have a look here and compare prices to see what you could get for this kind of money: https://www.aoijapan.com/

 

Again, there are European dealers - have a look at the links section at the top of the page and some very good deals can be had in the sales section on the Board.

 

Best,

John

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Dan there are a few members of the community that can help you buy a sword and armour in Japan, Paul Martin comes to mind, I believe he has a website as well. For ¥950,000 you can get some top notch quality swords (don't know much about armour). You made a smart move asking by here first.

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W

First you must answer the questions I have stated in my post:

"All depends on what you are interested in: blade or mounts or both."

Make up your mind and we can orientate you :)

Hi Jean,

 

I am interested in both. I would like a nice old blade with a nice mount, as I want to install it in a showcase in my bedroom.

 

Until now I did not actually realize that blades and mounts came seperately. Does this mean I could buy a blade and find a fitting mount later or how does this work?

 

Can mounts and blades be from different periods?

 

Does anyone have some links to articles so I can get up to date on silly questions like that without bothering the forum?

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

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Hi Dan,

Blades and mounts often, more likely usually are from different periods.  There is so much you need to know to make a smart purchase of a Japanese sword and a few articles, no matter how well written, won't help enough to protect you from your own exuberance.  If your heart is set on owning a real Japanese sword with nice mounts, one you won't lose your shirt on when the time comes to sell, and you aren't interested in the diligent study necessary to make the decision on your own, then you need help from someone with knowledge and experience and with your best interest at mind.  This will not be a tourist tout in Tokyo who will take your money to the antique shop that gives him the largest kickback.  Paul Martin in Japan, as already mentioned, and dealers here in the west also can help.  Your homework in picking that person will be significantly less than the homework necessary for picking the sword.

Grey

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So many questions Dan :) Yes, blades and mounts are available separately. You can find a 19th century blade with its original mounts, which is not the same for Koto blades. Difficult to find a Kamakura blade with its original mounts :)

 

Forget this blade. In the old times, armours were worn with a tachi mounts blade at their side, in the late 1500'stachi disappears for Uchikatana. Tachi mounts are worn edge down while uchikatana are worn edge up.

 

Forget this sword.

 

A tachi mounts with a fair blade amounts to more than 2 M¥. You can find nice mounted katana for 1 M¥.

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Dan, as has been said many times to many people, go out & buy books to study BEFORE you buy anything! Otherwise, an unethical salesman can persuade you to buy almost anything, including this kluged-up mixture you're showing us. If you're not willing to spend the time to learn the basics, at least look in this forum's For Sale thread, as sellers here are pretty darn honest, considering how many knowledgeable eyes are on them.

 

FYI, a "true shinken" is nothing more than a blade with a sharpened edge, & can be extremely low quality, so there's nothing "true" about it. The torokosho registration is nothing more than a simple bookkeeping form, & has nothing to do with a blade's value or provenance. Samurai changed out fittings & koshirae, depending on the occasion. Koshirae were worn when leaving the house, & the blade was kept in shirasaya for longer-term storage. Tsuba are generally interchangeable, too.

 

Once again, knowing the basics can save you many thousands of dollars, so it's good you posted here before wasting your money!

 

Welcome to the confusing world of Nihonto!

 

Ken

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