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Rust Spot On Fresh Polish

vajo

By vajo
in Nihonto

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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I recieved yersterday evening a blade from a trade here in NMB.

 

The blade is very nice and healthy and was polished in Japan a couple of month ago.

This morning i take a deeper look on the blade and after removing the choji with uchiko i found 3 spots of rust on the blade.

The biggest one is maybe <1mm and under macro you see a very thin ware where it rust.

 

My question is how what is the best way to handle the spots? If you take a fast look you didn't see them, but if you know the place you look on it.

 

 

I have a old mumei koto wakizashi with a fresh Japanese polish from a member here with a single rust spot on the kissaki. The blade was cheap so i didn't care much about it. But this blade now is much more worth. So I'm a little afraid about the iron cancer on it. 

 

I oild the blade no with caramba70 (maybe like WD40). I think it is more liquid than choji to go in the blade.

 

post-3496-0-23418500-1504179785_thumb.jpgpost-3496-0-23278300-1504179592_thumb.jpg

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Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Veteran

Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini

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Small spots of superficial rust could be removed using improvised tools of ivory or bone AND A LOT OF PRUDENCE. However if there is a ware we don't really know if the rust is working under the skin, not knowing if and how the ware develop in depth. Freshly polished blade are very fragile under this point of view and should be oiled very frequently.

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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Hello Carlo thank you for your advice.

 

Do you think it is good to use a modern oil like WD40 oder Caramba70 in this case. I oiled it very well and let the blade outside for half an hour to give the oil a chance to crawl into the blade before i remove that many oil and put it in shira saya. With enough oil there is no oxygen to rust further?

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Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini Veteran

Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini

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Hello Carlo thank you for your advice.

 

Do you think it is good to use a modern oil like WD40 oder Caramba70 in this case. I oiled it very well and let the blade outside for half an hour to give the oil a chance to crawl into the blade before i remove that many oil and put it in shira saya. With enough oil there is no oxygen to rust further?

 

I still use oil that Paul Martin provided me years ago, made by a Mukansa and honestly I have no experience with modern oils. I try to replace oil very very rarely even limiting the time I spend with my blades. You're right in saying that oil leave no space to oxigen however in the period (till to one year) after a professional polish might occur what happened to you due to small pinholes that maintain H2O from the Togi process. The blade "breathe"  hence the need to oil frequently a freshly polished blade.

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Ken-Hawaii Grand Master

Ken-Hawaii

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when the blade is oiled with a natural oil like choji i use uchiko.

Chris, I don't understand what you are saying. Oil protects the surface of the blade from oxidation (rust), while uchiko scours the surface. If you have one rust spot, then you shouldn't be using uchiko - you should be using a small piece of bone or ivory on just that spot.

 

Ken

 

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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I didn't treat the spot with uchiko Ken. I use uchiko as i recieved the blade from shipping to look what i have. ;-)

The blade was oiled with choji (Nelkenöl). And uchiko takes the old oil away from the blade and clean it. That is what uchiko is made for.

 

Maybe my english is not perfect, sorry.

 

Btw, it is not red rust. I think the rust spot is older. Maybe the blade was in bad condition before polish.

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ROKUJURO Grand Master

ROKUJURO

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Chris,

In most cases, CHOJI oil isn't a 'natural' oil. It is mainly a low viscosity mineral oil (carbon hydrate or paraffine) with a little (vegetal) CHOJI oil as fragrance. We had treated this subject some time back on the board. Modern lubricants can have significantly better protection capacities than paraffine, but a lot depends on the thickness of the lubricant film.

The other side is: You don't want any oil in the SAYA, be that in a SHIRA SAYA or KOSHIRAE, so you should not leave oil on the blade when it goes back into the SAYA. This underlines the importance of a well made SHIRA SAYA, as it keeps the amount of air/oxygen around the blade very low.   

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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Hi Jean,

thanks.

The picture above is not that what i put with the blade in the saya. Its a macro picture of the spot with the caramba 70 oil.

I didn't care longer of this tiny little spot. It is obviously old oxidation. I oil the blade with a high quality oil and clean in the future with isopropylalcohol.

 

Btw Caramba70 oil smells now like vanilla  :)

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paul griff Rising Star

paul griff

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Hello Chris,

Neutralise the rust and it will bother you no more...! When it's brown it's active...get it black....I use copper to clean it then Renaissance de- corroder...Done lot's of swords over the years and it's always worked....Just my opinion...If I found the missing Masamune I'd still use it !

Regards,

Paul.

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vajo Grand Master

vajo

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Joe i ask myself why has a fresh polished blade a rust spot as i get it?

I think the blade is here not unknown. So since the spot has come?

 

And the spot will surley not go away from alone when i now start to oíl it everyday. I'm the owner of the blade since thursday.

 

The blade comes with that spot(s)

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Brian

Brian

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Didn't want to mention it, but may as well.
Spots like this are exactly the sort of damage you can get when talking over a blade. That is why during kantei they sometimes wear masks, or sometimes hold a piece of cloth in their lips.
Not saying it is what happened, but only takes a word or 2 to end up with a rust spot.
I wouldn't panic.

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paul griff Rising Star

paul griff

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Hello Chris,

Yes,that's the one...That 1 litre will de- corrode all the blades in the country but that's the smallest container...You only use a small amount ....Had mine for years and it doesn't seem to degrade.....The wax is also very good,they use it in The British Museum...again,a small container last's for years...I Don't put the wax on my Japanese blades but wouldn't be without it for my other swords....

Regards,

Paul.

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paul griff Rising Star

paul griff

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Chris,sorry,forgot to add....Have a friend who buy's lots of swords and some are obviously freshly polished in Japan...I do suspect they are what some label " commercially polished " and you have to keep an eye on the blade for weeks on the next Just in case some moisture surfaces....Not sure if it's in the metal or from being put in the saya without being correctly dried and cleaned....but not a problem if spotted in time....Just keep an eye on it..! After the de-corroder is used,no problems....

Regards,

Paul.

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paul griff Rising Star

paul griff

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Hello Chris,

Yes,wash it off with clean water,dry thoroughly and the next part can be a bit contentious and you can ignore it if you are happy with the result thus far..I use solvol autosol chrome cleaner on a cotton bud ( the cotton ball on a stick people are not supposed to clean their ears with but they do ) to polish the damaged area...It's superfine so won't damage a polished blade,then one pass over the blade with an alcohol wipe ( the small ones used in the medical profession are best ) then oil as you would normally...Personally I don't use uchiko powder on polished blades just alcohol and choji oil.....but that's only my take on things....don't want to step on any toes or start a cleaning war !

Regards,

Paul.

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