Pawn Shop Nihonto Purchase (Hamon)

[dwmc]

Hello NMB members,

 

This is a sword I recently purchased from an local area pawn shop. The blade is obviously in fairly poor condition, however, the hamon is still reasonably

visible. I'm having trouble with determining which style best describes the hamon pattern. Gunome, Notare, Toran, combination of all three??? Would definitely appreciate further opinions...

 

The sword has unfortunately too out of polish to determine any activites, although, there does seem to be a bit of Itame/Mokume grain visible.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Dave

[Fuuten]

I'm not too sure about the hamon. Better pictures might help.

[hxv]

Is the hamon etched on the sword, or is it the real deal? If it is the real deal, as clear and bright as it is on a sword of this condition, then it's very promising. As Axel said, better closeup, focused pics of hamon, nakago, and a shot of the whole sword would help greatly.

 

Hoanh

[dwmc]

My apologies about poor photos,the sword was pretty much a rescue purchase. Out of polish,modified, etc...

 

Basically, was hoping there would be enough hamon visible to render an opinion as to style.

 

Additional photos added, but their not a great improvement beyond the previous...

 

Again Thanks,

 

Dave

[Stephen]

nakago?

[dwmc]

Thx Axel and Hoanh for your responses,

 

As mentioned, I simply couldn't bare seeing this sword laying in a pawn shop display case.

 

I'm most certainly not qualified to make a judgement as to true nihonto. Fortunately to individuals such as you, and the NMB.

 

I am confident the sword is true nihonto. Even though the hamon appears acid etched it is true hamon and frankly, it also appears to be a fairly well forged blade. No flaws that I can see, hagire, fukure, a well made blade.

 

The bad news...The nakago has been cut and ground, the habaki, unbelievably was soldered to the blade...soldered!

 

A real tragedy, I will post pictures if requested, however reluctantly.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[Dave R]

 Soldered, or cast on. Some wartime blades seem to have had the habaki cast "in situ" in a white metal. An area worth more investigation.

[dwmc]

 

Stephen,

 

You would be horrified, even an old Marine like you...

 

Dave

[Stephen]

Not always solder some in a white clay type substance. 

 

lay odds ive seen worse

[dwmc]

 

 

Stephen,

 

I lay odds you have also...

 

Nakago, habaki photos forthcoming.

 

Dave

[Jean]

Gunome midare

[dwmc]

 

 

Thank You Jean !!

 

Dave

[dwmc]

Ok gentlemen, I assure you, I was as horrified as you when I removed a Deer horn handle from the nakago. I was hoping the well meaning good old boy had left the original nakago intact. Oh no, it of course needed modification.

 

Don't get me wrong, the individual was most likely well meaning, and was simply unaware of what he was doing...

 

But heck, from the habaki onward, it still has the faded appearance of a once well made blade. I'll certainly keep this sword, and study still what it has left to offer..

 

Thanks always,

 

Dave

[Stephen]

I think its a keeper, and after seen in hand worth a polish?, what to do with the other end?, make it history!

Have a trained togi remover the homemade habaki Osurage it, given a new nakago, money that would never be recouped but its saving grace. 

JMHO

[Jean]

I would keep it as it is and display it as a reminder of what stupidity is....

[dwmc]

Thanks Stephen,

 

I'm stunned, I only briefly entertained the option of nakago replacement, but now that you mentioned it, I may very well do just what you suggest.

 

Dave

[dwmc]

 

 

That's a definite option also Jean. Maybe more to be learned from as it presently is.

 

Dave

[dwmc]

Stephen,

 

Ted Tenold is only a few hours away and the osurage option is quite tempting. I spoke with him briefly regarding another sword a couple of years ago at the San Francisco sword show.

 

Even though Jean is right, leave it as is, and replacing the nakago by osurage may be glaring example of my own stupidity. I would still love to see the sword in polish, all be it Osurage.

 

Thank you again Gentlemen,

 

I'll keep the sword posted in the future should Mr.Tenold agree to take on project.

 

Dave

[Stephen]

Ted will take you on the right path.

edit to ad. 

I could give analogy for wrecked Ferrari

 

 [pic of broken F548 not allowed]

 

or one where a horse needing to be put down.

 

how many blades have we seen where it was obvious that it was from a much longer blade broken in battle or what not?

 

ONCE Ted has it in hand he will be able to to tell if its worth the front finder fixed or if its RIP. 

[dwmc]

 

 

I'm sure he will be the right person to talk to.

 

 

Geez, just noticed I misspelled O-suriage not once but four times,,

 

Old age I guess,

 

Looking forward to contacting Ted.

 

Dave

[dwmc]

Many, many Suriage...

 

Dave

[Stephen]

Never go by my fat thumb spelling...lol

[dwmc]

Well, I can't say my third grade teacher didn't warn me that copying other peoples work would eventually catch up to me....lol

[Darcy]

That thing can be removed. 

 

Whatever heat was required to solder it either did or didn't damage the blade. That ship sailed. The equivalent heat to remove it will not make a difference. 

 

Or a chisel.

 

That said, the nakago is a pure horror show.

 

The mihaba of the blade increases just before the "habaki" which is weird "at best" for a suriage sword. So I don't think it's suriage, or normal. I think it is not legit, or if legit, one of the cheap tsunagi type of manufactured things that end up in export koshirae. Without seeing it in hand, I really don't know, but I don't see anything in the photos that would lead me to a hopeful feeling.

 

I also don't see any hamon, I see two colors of steel similar to reproduction blades that have reproduction hamon on them. Not sure what is causing the positive evaluations. 

[SAS]

Because hope springs eternal? it doesn't create much hope in me from the photos.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Any news about the blade's yokote ? Must be on holyday...

[dwmc]

Darcy, SAS, and Carlo,

 

Please accept my apology for slow response.

 

Darcy, I agree fully with your assessment. Unfortunately, as you can see from the photos, this sword has seen an incredible amount of age and abuse. There are no pictures I can take that will present the sword in any better light than simply as is in it's present condition. The sword is difficult to make heads or tale from. It most certainly appears to be an acid etched something or another sword. I do however, as previously mentioned, thanks to folks such as yourselves and the NMB am extremely confident this sword is true nihonto. The Hamon? which which appears in the pictures I think is true hamon possibly enhanced by some means or another. The mihaba question may have been caused by the sword also looking as though it was sent through a mechanical sharpener a time or two.

I will still most likely ask Ted Tarnold to take a look in the near future and will post his opinion..

 

SAS, No, there's really not much hope, and honestly, not looking for much.

 

Carlos, No Yokote visible...Shinogi worn and rounded.

 

Thank you Gentlemen...

 

It might be interesting to see what Mr. Tarnold has to say with blade in hand. (After the initial horror of course.)

 

Dave

[Vermithrax16]

Confused. Any huge suriage or polish or what ever is going to be wildy expensive. Is this a classic or something?

[Stephen]

NOBODY Knows until seen in hand...geeeesh

[dwmc]

Jerimiah,

 

No, Nothing really wildly expensive as of yet. I just found the sword in a local pawn shop with an elk antler handle attached and recognized the blade as possible nihonto. Of course noticed the prominent hamon also. Purchased it, removed the antler handle and found the nakago severaly altered. Thought I would inquire about the hamon style and show the members what someone is capable of doing when left to their own devices...

 

Anyway, the photos are obviously terrible, I do however believe the sword is Shinto era Nihonto looking at it in hand. Whats left of the butcherd nakago show a gret deal of age and also some faint sujikai yasurime.

 

 

Thanks,Dave