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Tsuba Help Please


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#1 johnnyi

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 08:13 PM

Hello,

 

I am hoping I can get some help identifying the school, name of the style, and the age of this tsuba.

 

Measurements:

84.5 mm  tall

81.5 mm wide

3.7 mm roughly at mimi

3. mm or slightly less on face

 

It is forged iron with evidence of folding

It has what looks like a natural black patina,

and there is curious "melted" or brushed surface to

the right and above nakago ana on both sides.

 

I was wondering if this could fit ko-shoami possibly?

Thanks for your help.

 

Kind regards,

 

John (johnnyi)s-l1600.jpg s-l1600xx.jpg



#2 johnnyi

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 06:17 PM

78 views and no opinions?  Please, if it is something glaringly obvious don't spare feelings :)   I might have written this one off if it wasn't for the folded iron, and the similarities of the border of the plate to a ko-shoami and one or two early saga kaneiye.  Any  help is much appreciated

 

regards,  John



#3 kissakai

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 06:32 PM

Hi John

When I looked at it earlier I didn't like the nakago ana and wondered why there was no shape to the seppa dai are or even any wear marks

I don't think there are enough clues to suggest a school and dating is difficult from images

I hope someone else joining in to this post


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Grev UK


#4 ROKUJURO

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 06:36 PM

John,

for me, this one is difficult. Very similar decoration on both sides, looking a bit 'amateurish' and not like an expert's free-hand design. The surface seems to be coarse in some places, but I am hesitant to call it cast.

Perhaps if you could show more of the TSUBA, e.g. the folding or some close-ups, then a comment might be easier. 


Regards,

Jean C.

#5 johnnyi

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 07:26 PM

IMG_1293.JPG wood grain (1).JPG side of mimi.JPG Grev and Jean, thank you.  I had (have) the same reservations as both of you, however upon being assured that it is not cast, and its very low price, I have taken a chance.

 

I have edited this post and replaced two pictures. Hopefully you can see the edge of the mimi, the worn area of the seppa dai, the minute chisel marks on three corners of nakago ana, and what looks like a false wood grain (shows much rougher than in hand).

 

In all, very frustrating; either junk, or  old and interesting., 

 

regards, John



#6 ROKUJURO

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 09:58 PM

John,

no reason to be frustrated as you did not pay much! The 'chisel marks' do not appear as cuts, so it is still not obvious if this is a cast copy or a real TSUBA. One possibility is that the etching/pickling for a patina was excessively heavy on this one, but that is just a guess. The photo of the rim is not really sharp and does not allow a judgement.

Best advice I can give is to ask Ford Hallam or Curran or to take the TSUBA to a NIHONTO exhibition and show it to some experts. 


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Regards,

Jean C.

#7 johnnyi

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 11:11 PM

Ha, thanks Jean, frustration might have been the wrong word; its more like the old Chet Baker tune, "almost blue"...  practically enough, but not :laughing: 

I'll let it sit and hope Ford shows up.,  Thanks again fellers.

 

John



#8 Henry Wilson

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 01:10 AM

It could be Kamakura-bori. The plate looks tosho/katchushi and the carving seems to be abstract Chinese landscape inspired. It does not have the finesse seen with such a school though imho and there is unconventional look to the tsuba in general. Interesting to hear what others may say.
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Henry Wilson

幸福は満足にあり。

#9 Curran

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:21 AM

To me, this looks suspect to be a repatination.

 

Look at it from the angle of a real tsuba that was prepped to take a fresh patina, and then "painted over".

The age is under a new coat of patina.


Michin nom Curran


#10 johnnyi

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:42 AM

Henry and Curran, thank you for your help. Henry, I had been looking at this example wondering if it was related, but it lacked the rim (which seemed to exist on a saga kanaiye tsuba on the Shibui sword site)  Regarding the patina, thanks for that insight. For what its worth, there is no smell or taste, and if I rub it with cloth rag the only deposit is small amount of brown rust. Is this consistent with repatinization? 

 

Thanks again,   John  

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#11 Curran

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Posted 06 August 2017 - 03:11 AM

There is no one singular approach and formula for repatination.

Therefore no test as simple as a scratch and smell test.

 

The level of rework varies greatly.

It was recently that I joked with someone that repatinations should be graded on a scale of 1 to 10, just as I liked to do with shakudo long ago.

I know repatinations have passed as high as Tokubetsu Hozon and believe probably a few have passed Juyo.


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Michin nom Curran





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