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Omg - Copper Handle Type 95, Going For 4,000 Usd!


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#1 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 02:45 AM

Title says it all: http://www.ebay.com/...UwAAOSwcB5ZJh6b

#2 Curran

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 03:01 AM

I'll never understand ebay.


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#3 vajo

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 05:16 PM

Nakago looks like sprayed with:

 

930-3027.jpg

:)

 

s-l500.jpg

 

but maybe it's from the picture.. 


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#4 johngdo

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:00 AM

I was literally about to post this link here.  This price seems unreasonable for a mass produced WW2 blade.  Are these copper variants noteworthy for any particular reason?  Honestly, before today I wouldn't have thought that this sword would be worth even$1000.  It seems like it's difficult for even papered nihonto to draw attention on ebay at $4000 plus.

 

John



#5 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:03 PM

I was literally about to post this link here. This price seems unreasonable for a mass produced WW2 blade. Are these copper variants noteworthy for any particular reason? Honestly, before today I wouldn't have thought that this sword would be worth even$1000. It seems like it's difficult for even papered nihonto to draw attention on ebay at $4000 plus.

John


John, the copper-handled gunto were the first 6,500, out of 180,000 made during the war. The production was only for 1 year. So they are considered more desirable than the "average" Type 95. Changes were made to make them lighter (aluminum handle, lighter saya, lighter blade) after that. I've seen the prices rise over the past year, but this seems hard to believe.

#6 johngdo

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:12 PM

Bruce,

Thanks for the insight, that's very interesting. I still can't imagine paying over $4000 for a mass produced blade, even for a rare varient. That kind of money could get you a nice papered nihonto with gunto mounts.

Just a different sort of collector I suppose.

John

#7 Stephen

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:20 PM

Military Collectors are a breed of their own. We  have seen them higher, market is down on them at the moment. 


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#8 Surfson

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:11 PM

Yasukunito and Minatogawato command huge prices and are also a breed apart from typical military blades, hand made or not.  Markets are fascinating things. 


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#9 mauser99

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:41 PM

This one was more attractive than the last few I have seen sell. Not to me but, just the way it was presented.

With the tassel and capture tag ? Lol.  Who knows for sure even this could have been assembled this way for the sale ?

There was one the seller had trouble getting 2500.00 for and it was on ebay and gun boards for sale.

At the time I didn't have the cash and I was hesitant to pay 2500.00 for it.  As I cant see that price either.  

I haven't paid more than 700 for any type 95 I own and I have almost all the variants.

Ebay or any auction is un-predictable at best.  I just bought a Kai-gunto with non-stainless arsenal blade for under 800 and its a great sword ! 

You just never know.


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#10 IJASWORDS

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

Price (like beauty) is in the eye of the beholder. To militaria, and in particular NCO collectors, $4000 could be a reasonable price for a good "rare" example. Bruce explained its rarity well. Assuming that out of the few thousand made, probably only at best 20% survived. That means not many to go around all the potential collectors. I for one can understand the price, and are happy that they are appreciating (makes mine more valuable!). To compare the "machine made" NCO, to a NIHONTO, is a not a valid comparison. They have a different collector base, being more reasonably described as military artefacts. However they are still a Japanese sword, and deserve all the respect given to ALL Japanese swords. Neil.
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#11 Jean

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:52 AM

Everybody knows the sophism:

All that is rare is expensive
However a cheap horse is rare
Thus a cheap horse is expensive.

The difference between syllogism and sophism is in the first sentence. To be a syllogism, it must states an universal truth. In this case, all that is rare is not expensive.

I paid 3 times this price for this one which is the only known example signed tanto:

http://katananokura....P/1411-T01.html

Concerning this handle, it depends of course of demand vs offer. Million of people are surfing ebay everyday. So the competition can be very fierce for a rare artifact. There are a lot of wealthy military artifact collectors ready to spend thousand of dollars on a rare handle example. Should this handle have been sold in a garage sale or in an obscure dealer website, it would never have reached this price.

Conclusion: ebay can be the worst place to get good deals (not mentioning all the fakes around) and never take for granted that militaria collectors are poor. When one sees the price of some sword tassels...
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Jean L.
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#12 IJASWORDS

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 01:33 PM

Hi Jean L, your observations are probably true, but personally I would not have paid "3 times this price" for that little knife. Neil.


Neil

#13 Jean

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:23 PM

Yes Neil, because you are focussing on militaria swords which I don't know anything about in the same way as you don't know anything about Koto swords, yamato schools

http://www.militaria...-for-fun/page-1


Now which is historically the more important, each one has his opinion :)
Jean L.
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#14 mauser99

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:08 PM

What people pay for stuff and what we think is better or worse all comes down to personal preference and we are all individuals.

Millions of items are out there for sale and we all ended up here for one reason. We like Japanese sword's in one way or another.  

 

Im a military collector and that where I focus but, can still appreciate that little tanto even though I have no clue what makes it valuable.

I find the art sword guys look down on us military sword guys..IMHO.


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#15 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:38 PM

What people pay for stuff and what we think is better or worse all comes down to personal preference and we are all individuals.
Millions of items are out there for sale and we all ended up here for one reason. We like Japanese sword's in one way or another.  
 
Im a military collector and that where I focus but, can still appreciate that little tanto even though I have no clue what makes it valuable.
I find the art sword guys look down on us military sword guys..IMHO.


I agree Wayne. It reminds me of "wine snobs" that look down on California wines or Chilean wines. We all have our "tastes" and specialties. It is when one starts looking down on other's tastes that we are getting into character issues not item values.

#16 Brian

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:47 PM

 

I find the art sword guys look down on us military sword guys..IMHO.

 

 I think the militaria guys encourage or largely invent that stereotype. I certainly don't see it here, aside from wonder at some of the prices they fetch...justifiably.
But the only ones who talk about how militaria guys are talked down to, are militaria guys :laughing:
They call it a self-fulfilled prophesy


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#17 mauser99

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:03 PM

I understand not caring about mass produced machine made blades.. I feel the same way with dress swords. 

A ww2 gunto no matter how the blade was made was a weapon that was "one" with the owner as was the ancient swords of their ancestors. 


Wayne W.

#18 Jean

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:13 PM

Bruce and Wayne,

I was not the one talking about "little knife" as was saying Brian, the snobs are not where one would think LOL.

BTW, It is 27 cm long which does not qualify this as little tanto, the average size being rather 22/23 cm

I have never, in my post, snobs in any way this copper handle or people collecting militaria. I have collected Militaria :). Neil did not seem to be in the same mood, I just stated in my reply that he could not compare art sword to militaria.
Jean L.
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#19 IJASWORDS

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:26 AM

Hi Jean, I was being comic, saying "little knife", so didn't mean offence. I get annoyed when non-military collectors try and judge our side of collecting and study. By the way, I have many (some papered) KOTO blades, that just happen to be in military mounts. They are also wonderful, and I appreciate them. So pardon my little joke, and I hope that we all remain friends and committed to preserving Japanese swords, regardless of their origin. Neil.    


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#20 mywei

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:11 AM

Comparing gunto to nihonto is akin to apples and oranges imho. In terms of artistic value you simply cannot compare a properly forged nihonto to a mass produced weapon. Militaria has its own merit and market parameters which drive certain prices up or down, it's just the way it is, no right or wrong.
Matt

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#21 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:12 AM

Jean,
I'm sorry if you thought my comment was aimed at you- it wasn't. I was speaking generically. Even Matt's statement above highlights the differences in perspective - he's looking for nihonto art - where the military collector is looking at a beautiful weapon made for WWII soldiers. Not the same thing. Not the same beauty.




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