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Fleabay Tadahiro


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#1 Prewar70

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:40 PM

Looks like a nice blade, TH papers, sayagaki but not sure by who, and half the price of where I have seen others for sale.  I don't know the seller, but why isn't this sword selling, if I can ask that question.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...DgAAOSwRGlXpl3N


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#2 raymondsinger

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:05 PM

Hizen-to are often especially inclined to show shingane. With only one photo of the blade taken in focus, there is not much to show how healthy the sword is (or its quality).


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#3 Stephen

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:23 PM

James, would you pay 10K for a sword on Ebay?


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#4 Prewar70

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 11:49 PM

Shouldn't the TH papers speak to the quality of the blade regarding the shingane, health, and overall quality?  Stephen, not necessarily, but that isn't my question.  I want to try and understand why a TH papered blade by a well rated smith, from a good school, is selling for roughly half the price and not selling.  Maybe because folks don't want to spend 10k on Ebay, to your point.  Or maybe if they saw the blade in person, they'd be willing to pay 15k like the one on Darcy's site.  So what am I missing.

 

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#5 Mark

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:06 AM

ebay sword 68 cm,  a bit short.... Darcy's sword 75.7 cm  unusually long  a big difference


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#6 Katsujinken

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:16 AM

I've said it before: unless you know the seller, all you're bidding on at eBay is trouble.

With this piece, there are no returns accepted. Absolutely preposterous for something that costs $10,000 and doubly so for a nihonto.
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#7 Prewar70

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:27 AM

Does it matter, Darcys is Hozon, and the eBay sword is TH.  Again, should not the TH papers cover a litany of concerns, especially with Hizen?  And regarding no returns accepted, that's fine that he states that, but I know Ebay and they are almost always on the side of the buyer.  And now that everything is through paypal, which they own, if a buyer has an issue eBay is going to help them.  I'm not buying this sword, but I do travel to the bay area often.  IT would be interesting to see in person.


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#8 Stephen

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:27 AM

Good point....say if Ray was selling ...i had the mony...yes i would
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                                  Stephen C.

                      USMC      DEC 63      APR 73

              "Nothing Fxcks you harder than time"

                        Sir  Davos Seaworth


#9 raymondsinger

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:32 AM

I can recall a number of Hizen-to which received Tokubetsu Hozon and exhibited shingane.
 

Shouldn't the TH papers speak to the quality of the blade regarding the shingane, health, and overall quality?
 


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#10 Grey Doffin

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:51 AM

Ebay no longer owns paypal.

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#11 Prewar70

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 03:25 AM

That surprises me Ray.  You have far more experience than I but for a Shinto smith, TH papers, and shingane, that seems surprising.  


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#12 YOJIMBO

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 12:44 PM

James, would you pay 10K for a sword on Ebay?

I sold them more expensive. eBay does not necessarily mean inferior quality. Just skip the intermediary.


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#13 leo

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 01:11 PM

To sell this sword is not the issue . The data and the price are excellent provided it is a flawless blade. The problem are the lousy pictures. In this price range high resolution photos are a must or it will simply not sell.

 

Best, Martin


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#14 Pete Klein

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:42 PM

I believe this is where the write up in Japanese came from:  http://www.taiseido....cn22/pg556.html

 

Different sword.


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#15 Curran

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 03:18 PM

Pete:   Good sleuthing.

 

Yes, the price is exceptional- but Ray's point is correct.

I don't know if the one we called "The Ninja" is still active in California. When I saw this auction, I first thought of him.

Given the other items the seller has up- he might simply be a pawn shop or such.


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#16 Adversary

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:50 AM

To sell this sword is not the issue . The data and the price are excellent provided it is a flawless blade. The problem are the lousy pictures. In this price range high resolution photos are a must or it will simply not sell.

 

Best, Martin

 

 

Am i the only person that would think to contact the seller and request more/better pictures? I've done this with brand new items of little worth (clothing, car parts, etc). I'd imagine the seller would be more than happy to oblige, and if not? Then thats a red flag that can be seen from space. Either way, you win.


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#17 Darcy

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:47 PM

First off, $10k for an Omi Daijo Tadahiro katana in good condition is quite cheap. There have been Omi Daijo wakizashi @ TH on the usual websites that have been $10k or $12k. There are a lot of examples of katana available from this smith and the typical pricing for them is 2 to 2.5 million yen for blades below Juyo, depending on what level of work you have from this smith and how rapidly the seller wants to sell it. Because it cuts both ways, if you're in the market for an Omi Daijo you can sit back and choose the one that really speaks to you. If you're buying something like an ubu Ko-Ichimonji with signature and 80cm length then you don't have the luxury to sit back when someone presents one to you, that is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for most people. So the fact that there are a lot of Omi Daijo leads people to comparison shop. 

 

A lot of people don't realize that Omi Daijo is the #1 smith in terms of volume of Juyo Token from the Shinto period and number 5 out of all smiths. He has 135 and the next closest Shinto or Shinshinto smith is Horikawa Kunihiro. This also speaks to his level of production though and the number of smiths working on his swords during his lifetime (and a long life it was). But basically the skill level in the work is highly variable. 

 

Separating this blade and what is on my site, this one looks pretty nice actually provided it is healthy. The price is good. It's shorter but not horribly short. Good blade.

 

This part:

 

 

Does it matter, Darcys is Hozon, and the eBay sword is TH

 

There is no real daylight between Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon for swords provided you can see that the blade is problem free. In a lot of cases people just don't want to spend the extra money for Tokubetsu Hozon as it won't change the market price and if you're papering a lot it can add up to some significant fees. Past that, anyone with eyes should be able to look at a Hozon blade and know it will pass Tokubetsu Hozon.

 

If this Omi Daijo is problem free it is a very nice buy for someone, but this is basically impossible to tell from the level of photos the seller has provided. So someone has to stick their neck out and on ebay people stick their neck out if it's really, really cheap. 

 

As a side note if you were curious about the top 10 smiths in terms of Juyo examples they are:

 

1. Kanemitsu

2. Rai Kunimitsu

3. Rai Kunitoshi

4. Nagamitsu

5. Omi Daijo Tadahiro

6. Shizu

7. Motoshige

8. Soshu Yukimitsu

9. Horikawa Kunihiro

10. Unji 

 

Some comments: Niji Kunitoshi is #25 on the list and if we add the output to Rai Kunitoshi (as should be done) then this smith becomes number one on the list by far. That would pop Kotetsu into the top 10. 


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#18 Darcy

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:51 PM

That surprises me Ray.  You have far more experience than I but for a Shinto smith, TH papers, and shingane, that seems surprising.  

 

Why?

 

Tokubetsu Hozon means the blade is extraordinarily worthy of preservation. Some shingane doesn't make the blade unworthy of preservation and as long as it's 400 year old handicraft from a famous artist, it should be worth extra efforts to preserve. 

 

The attitude of "it has flaws so it's bad" is a western thing entirely, until you get to the kind of flaw that makes the sword unable to perform its primary task. Things we think are health issues, they overlook entirely. For them, if the hamon is bright the sword is healthy and ready to go. For us we will take a slightly dimmer hamon and intact jigane usually and think it is more healthy, where they may say that blade is less healthy. 

 

So really brightness of hamon trumps most other things.

 

Going to the museum to look at the Juyo or Tokuju exhibition is eye opening in some difficult to accept ways. 


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#19 Prewar70

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:38 PM

That's really interesting Darcy and gives me a lot to think about regarding the Western attitudes towards blade health vs the Japanese. Just another variable to try and remember when evaluating a sword. I'm going to contact the seller, see if he will provide better pics and or accept an in person visit next time I'm in the area.

James Friedrichs


#20 NihontoCollector

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 01:50 AM

I can tell you that Darcy is right. He probably is always right.


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#21 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:54 PM

Western collectors of all natures are usually focused heavily on condition, anything but mint doesn't cut it for some.

 

It's the baby out with the bathwater approach that leads to some bizarre trends for newer collectors, especially with nihonto.


John





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