Shakudo Question

[johnnyi]

Hello. My question is, were shakudo tsuba of Momoyama period ever made with a core of copper,  and then coated with bronze shakudo alloy? (not with use of pins, but adhering to the copper by some other means)? Thank you in advance

 

regards,  John I

[Geraint]

Hi John,

 

You are not thinking of sanmai awase tsuba are you?  http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/tsuba/sanmai.htm

 

All the best.

[johnnyi]

No I'm not (no pins or other mechanical attachment). It is basically a coating or thin layer of bronze over a copper core, (and then patinated.)   johnny I

 

 

 

 

Ah! I went to the Nihonto search engine which I should have gone to first! I think my question is answered. Thanks ,  JohnI

[TETSUGENDO]

Johnnyi,

 

Do you mean coated as in plating, or close plating, perhaps veneering?  The most up to date answer to your inquiry,  that comes to mind, can probably be obtained from Ford Hallum.  I believe he is working on a tome addressing classical Japanese metallurgy and related subject matter.  

 

-StevenK

[johnnyi]

Thanks Steven, I already punched my Ford  ticket on another question to him today, so now I'm going to let him rest after his three weeks of teaching   You're right though, he's the man to ask.  regards, John

[rkg]

John,

 

I've seen all kinds of crazy stuff - thin layer more or less wrapped around the copper core, a cup the yamagane core fit in with a plate pushed into the top, clever sanmai where you can't see where the fukurin begins, etc - often the outer pieces are soldered to the inner core, but now always - I'm sure there are others...  note that even then the outer layer may just be a slightly better grade of copper that will actually take patination over that yamagane/bronze core - its been pointed out to me that there is a fair amount fewer real shakkudo pieces than you think :-/

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[johnnyi]

This is the tsuba I'm struggling with to try to date. It was sold as pre-edo. I don't know what color pre-edo shakudo base metal should look like, or whether at that time a thin layer was annealed to a core of copper?? Try to imagine a brighter copper in the walls and it will be close to what it looks like. (little irregularities in a few of the petals are not from casting; they're some trace of goop, I presume to protect it. Thanks, John I

[Ford Hallam]

John

 

Compositional analyses of shakudo from almost any period, from the early 14th century until the Meiji Period, reveals no clear distinction in that we see the same varieties of alloy throughout that period. What I'm saying is that based on composition alone there is no way to confidantly establish the alloy's age. It follows then that attempts to judge age by patina colour and texture are equally risky as there are simply too many factors that can have an impact on the patina and it's condition.

 

As far as unpatinated shakudo, of whatever composition and including so called 'yama-gane',  they all appear to be exactly the same colour as plain copper.

 

From what I can see in your images I would suggest the openings have merely been filed at some time to fit a new blade and perhaps accomodate a kozuka. Not all shakudo alloys will self patinate back to black. In fact I recently 'revived' a very chocolate coloured tsuba (thought to be 'yama-gane') to a rich ink black patina. An XRF analysis revealed the alloy to indeed be a true shakudo.

 

I hope some of that helps clarify things.

 

Ford

[johnnyi]

Huge help Ford. Thank you!   

 

John I