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Good Sword On Aoi Art


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#1 Jean

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:59 AM

If you can, grab it. Very good smith, very good blade. Just a question, why a shu mei and not a kin zogan mei?

https://www.aoijapan...shumei-kanenaga
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#2 BIG

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:02 PM

A good one too...3250000 yen

https://www.aoijapan...thk-juyo-paper/

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Peter Reusch

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#3 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:49 PM

If you can, grab it. Very good smith, very good blade. Just a question, why a shu mei and not a kin zogan mei?

https://www.aoijapan...shumei-kanenaga

 

 

Bonjour,

 

 

If memory serves, isn't a shu mei not only an attribution, but also an indication that the sword was believed to have been originally signed? Where a kin zogan mei is only an attribution? 

 

... and now to go deal with an endorphin rush, ah, these bothersome old addictions ..... 


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#4 seattle1

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:33 PM

Hello:

 Following Gordon Robson's preparation of Glossary of Japanese Sword Terms, JSS/US, p.72: "Shumai, Literally "red" signature and refers to a kantei mei done in red lacquer. These are also often accompanied by the name of a Honami appraiser and are typically done on blades that have an ubu nakago."

 That definition has some elasticity by use of terms like "often" and "typically," however it certainly is the standard definition. I also saw the Aoi posting this AM and wondered about it being placed on what looks like a substantially altered original nakago, but once again it reminds us of the worth of Nakahara's Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords and all the amazing transformations, usually for deception at some point, that original sugata have undergone over the years.

 Arnold F.



#5 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:36 PM

paulb said

I found the piece in Tanobe-sans article I referred to in the earlier text. I quote:
"We know during the Edo period The Honami family applied Kinzogan-mei to blades which got mumei after the O-suriage process. When an attribution was done on an ubu but mumei blade, it was inscribed via a Shu-mei (red lacquer signature) From time to time we find blades which show a kind of shu-mei but which can be identified as O-suriage by the way the yakiba goes over the machi. Such attributions were done from the Meiji period onwards, and are not called shu-mei but shu-sho (red lacquer inscriptions). Also Kinpun-mei were not applied during the Edo period but also from the Meiji period onwards"
I hope this may help to clarify and confirm peoples views

Regards
Paul


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Franco

#6 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:46 PM

Hello,

 

Well, I guess since this previous post is a quote of a quote, for whatever reason I'm not able/allowed to add or edit it. Be that as it may, based on Paul's info then, this red lacquer mei on the aoi Kanenaga would be a shu-sho mei, n'est-ce pas.


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Franco

#7 Jean

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 01:01 AM

That's what I thought from the start Franco, it should not be a shu-mei.
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#8 Greg F

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 02:18 AM

Would the red urushi mei be done mainly on quality blades? Cheers.

Greg

Edit: mainly asking in regards to late koto to early edo blades

#9 Kronos

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:35 AM

Aren't swords papered with shumei rather low on the desirability list as the NBTHK doesn't want to go against Koson's judgement out of respect even if they may disagree? I'm sure I recall Darcy referring to this in a recent post.


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#10 paulb

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 10:11 AM

Hi James

Although I have heard something similar I think it is a rather too simplistic generalisation. I have seen any number of swords with shumei or sayagaki by highly rated appraisers that have received juyo or above papers. And certainly they would figure very highly on my desirability quotient. I have also seen Juyo blades where the paper has mentioned a shumei but have disagreed with it.


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#11 Valric

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:00 PM

Thanks for the tip, Jean. 

 

Struck ~135% of the reserve price. 1.7KK. 

 

A quick search at other blades from this smiths tend to be associated with much higher prices, and (judging exclusively the blade from the pictures/descriptions, which is difficult if not impossible...and not from the papers...) It's hard to see in which way this shu-mei would be (much) inferior to some of the previous exemplars. Except for the last example, which appears in a league of its own. 

 

https://www.aoijapan...thk-juyo-paper/ 3.6KK

http://www.sword-auc...-mumei-kanenaga 3.2KK

https://www.aoijapan...thk-juyo-paper/ 3.6KK

https://www.aoijapan...ed-as-kanenaga/ (This one is a real stunner) 4.8KK

 

These are all swords that sold. 

 

Here the only TH Kanenaga katana I could find for comparison. (which makes for a very biased sample of the Smith's work...)

 

https://nihontoclub....tsu-Hozon-paper

 

So perhaps there is an elephant in the room? 

 

Since it papered TH 15 years ago, I surmise its previous owner tried Juyo shinsa once or twice, and it just didn't fly. 


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#12 Valric

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 01:31 PM

And two more : 

 

The different picture styles (and poor quality) makes it even more difficult to compare. 

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/kanenag.htm Tokuju, Kinzogan mei this time. 

http://www.sho-shin.com/kanenaga.htm, Juyo


Chris H. 





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