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Help With Tsuka


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#1 jeremy

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:00 AM

Hey guys

Just got a tsuka back from Japan that was wrapped. Tsuka went on a bit loose onto the nakago as the humidity here is beyond belief with all the rain. Tried shimming the tsuka with paper as I normally do, but this time the paper shim got stuck. Tried using tweezers to pull it out of the tsuka but eventually it ripped and the shim is at the bottom of the tsuka. Tried different tools etc to get all the paper out, but it seems the paper is permanently stuck at the bottom, and cant seat the nakago back into the tsuka. Any help with how to fix this? Or anyone I can send it to in order to get all the paper out? Thanks for any help.
Jeremy

#2 Greg F

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:15 AM

Gday Jeremy, ive had the same challenge. I just used wiee with a slight bend on the end which had a sharp end. It slowly pulled it apart it all came out. Good luck mate.

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#3 jeremy

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:36 AM

Hi Greg, thanks for replying. I've tried exactly what you mentioned before even reading your post. Nothing seems.to be working. The paper has all been stuffed right at the end of the tsuka. There's no leeway for the hook to pull it out. I'm out of ideas here, and don't want to ruin the tsuka core too much. What to do...
Jeremy

#4 Greg F

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:56 AM

Ohh bummer. Maybe weld the head of a narrow screw on a rod and try screwing into the paper carefully and gently pull it out. Maybe a spot of supa glue on the end of a rod. Another idea maybe heat up a rod red hot anx burn it out before trying the wire again. Of course any of these ideas would have to be very carefully done not to cause damage or create any further problems. Best of luck.

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#5 Dr Fox

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:37 PM

A word of warning here, on the use of paper on or in any of your fittings.

Paper by its very nature will attract moisture. (as the humidity here is beyond belief with all the rain.)  It will 'wick' moisture from air, into areas you really want to keep dry.

Once soaked it will paste itself to any contact surface, to wood its wallpaper, to iron its a rust starter.

There are many better choices, of non absorbent materials. 


Denis

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#6 Geraint

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:45 PM

Hi Jeremy.

 

If as Denis suggests you have the paper wedged in very tightly then you might have to resort to a sharp point or edge, if it was me I would be using what I call a paring chisel.  Very little pressure and some care, what you are trying to do is break up the paper and scrape it away from the wood.  You might be able to feel where the paper is and gently ease it away.  If you need to see what you are doing then you can get miniature bore light these days.

 

Go gently!

 

All the best


Geraint

#7 Brian

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:09 PM

Coarse screw soldered at the end of a piece of coathanger wire.
Or flatten the end of a piece of wire, and file sharp fishhook type edges that will catch the paper as you turn the wire. Little bits out at a time.


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#8 Dr Fox

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:52 PM

There are tools for this job, used by saya maki to remove wood, from the inside of a tsuka after a wrap, which can sometimes tighten the tsuka.

Would work on your task in hand.

Basically a long scraper, turned at its end and edged. 

It gives a scraping cutting action.

The shaft is rigid, thus allowing controlled pressure to be used.

Not being clever here, as I watched Mr Mike Hickman Smith, use one on a saya for a koshirae he built for me.


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#9 jeremy

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 02:03 PM

Thanks all for taking the time to respond. The paper is stuck all the way at the bottom now unfortunately. Not on the side walls. It's bunched up mess of paper. I've tried the above mentioned suggestions with no luck unfortunately. Is there someone I can send the tsuka to get it done for me?
Thanks!
Jeremy

#10 Bazza

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 02:27 PM

Well, last resort, try a dental pick.  They come in many varieties from small to large with different "hook" and "point" shapes.

 

Try here:

http://www.fishpond....CFY4EKgod6hIMFw

 

or here:

https://www.hobbytoo...ess-steel-6-pc/

(looks like a better deal)

 

Good luck,

 

BaZZa.



#11 Stephen

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 02:30 PM

a crochet hook should work, not one handy? probably not unless grandma leaves close by. I like Brian's idea, hammer it flat, heat on stove if you have too, then kurl a hook.

 

Depending how lose a tsuka is a wood shim works well, think starbucks stick, whittled down to nothing on one end large end in first.

 

 

Edit 

 

I like Bazzmans idea!!!


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#12 ROKUJURO

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:53 PM

Jeremy,

you could send  it to me (Germany) for the removal of the paper. I could forge any fine tool that may be necessary, but you may find a skilled smith near your place as well, I hope!


Regards,

Jean C.

#13 jeremy

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:04 PM

Thanks for all the replies. You guys are great. Unfortunately I think those dental tools are too short. The paper is stuck about 8 inches into the tsuka core, right at the bottom preventing the nakago to fully seat itself into the core. I'll try again for the next few days and may send it to someone to give it a go for me.
Cheers
Jeremy

#14 Brian

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:14 PM

Jeremy, even if almost a solid ball at the bottom , one of the tools should be able to bore into the paper, and extract it, even if a little bit at a time.
You could also consider pouring ethyl alcohol into the bottom, soaking the paper, and then quickly working at it with the tools...the alcohol should evaporate completely with no effect to the sword afterward. But note that I don't know what it would do to any rice glue, or ito...it is just a quick thought and needs to be further thought out for possible pitfalls.
Take it to your local dentist, ask him if you can borrow some old picks for a few minutes and a strong flashlight. He might have some longer ones that are old...or written off ones that a jeweller can braze onto the end of a rod.


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#15 Stephen

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:32 PM

push comes to shove Andrew should be able to help

 

https://touken-togishi.com/


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#16 Brian

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:35 PM

Was also thinking that :)

Although Stephen....it was (In this case) push and shove that led to this. Needs pull now. :laughing: :rotfl:


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#17 Stephen

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:39 PM

:laughabove:  :thumbs:


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#18 Grey Doffin

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:16 PM

You can try a long drill bit with a diameter small enough that it won't contact the sides of the nakago recess.  Rather than securing the tsuka and going after it with a hand held drill I would secure the drill and move the tsuka against the spinning bit.  This way you will be better able to feel when the bit has gone through the paper wad to the wood tsuka core.  A drill press, if you have one, should work; other wise you can clamp the drill to a bench or have someone hold the drill firmly on the bench and press the trigger.  I wouldn't attempt to get all the paper with the bit, just enough to break it up so the rest will either fall out if the tsuka is rapped upside down on the bench or you go at it with something like a crochet hook.

Grey



#19 alansue

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:02 AM

Jeremy where do you live ?
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#20 Ken-Hawaii

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 04:34 AM

One idea, Jeremy, is to use the type of small brass wire brush that's used to clean firearms. They come in .22 caliber & maybe even smaller (Brian?), & the many small prongs should catch & eventually remove your clogged paper. The cleaning rod will get you to any depth, too.

 

Ken

 



#21 EdWolf

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 09:57 AM

A crochet hook will do the job. You can also sharpen the tip so you can push the tip of the crochet hook deeper into the paper prop.

 

Ed


Ed

#22 Brian

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 10:44 AM

One idea, Jeremy, is to use the type of small brass wire brush that's used to clean firearms. They come in .22 caliber & maybe even smaller (Brian?), & the many small prongs should catch & eventually remove your clogged paper. The cleaning rod will get you to any depth, too.

 

Ken

.177 is the smallest, but the brushes usually don't start at the front. Don't think they will catch the paper if it is balled up tight enough. But a .177 rod will be useful to attach whatever you modify to work. Buy a .177 brass jag, flatten it with a hammer and anvil etc..then you can shape burrs etc on it.
With a combo of all the advice above, you will get it out. Or reach out to other Oz members who will help.


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#23 Shinto23

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 11:20 AM

I have successfully used a scroll saw blade - trimmed to a sharp point at one end (just prior to a saw tooth) to create a 'barb'.. Once you get a bit of paper out, you can keep working to draw a bit more out each time. Works really well to clean out Kozuka handles of wood and paper, but may not be long enough for your Tsuka.. You may have to affix to something to get the depth. Good luck which ever way you go...

 

Barrie.



#24 Stephen

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:21 PM

back to the beginning, have you tried tapping on wood table (very lightly~ fuchi off) no hurry light taps  


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#25 Alex A

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 01:18 PM

You can buy long metal drinking straws for peanuts. Tape one end to suction hose on vacuum cleaner=turbo sucker. lol



Everything else been said, might work :)
Alex.

#26 jeremy

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:05 AM

Thanks again guys!! I've tried tapping it with the fuchi off on my palm, table etc. No budging. next option is now to get a crochet hook and try get the sucker out. I've had some offers to help my awesome aussie members here if all else fails. Thanks
Jeremy
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#27 John A Stuart

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:56 AM

As above with scroll sawblade, but, reciprocating saw blades are longer. Make a hook and keep working at it. Your will is stronger than paper's integrity. Haaa! John


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#28 Dr Fox

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:25 PM

Your problem is compounded, by constantly pushing down on, and compressing the paper already wadded inside.

The area you are working in is confined.

A pick that ends at 90 degrees will not serve. as it presents its flat area to the materiel.

Better a short end, with a greater angle of attack, and a chisel type finish.

The shaft of which does not bend easily.

Now feel for a low area of the packing, and draw into it there.

Make the end of the pick as small as you can, paper will not resist it, but wood will.


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#29 Loyer

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:34 PM

idea 1:  thin plastic tube taped to a vacuum cleaner nozzle.  The thin tube would be small enough to reach the paper.

 

idea 2:  a chop stick with sma;; amount of hot glue dabbed on the end.  Slide the glue/stick into the tsuka and let it solidify on the paper.  pull out.

 

If all else fails give to me free.


Dennis M.


#30 Stephen

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:37 PM

lol have worked with hot glue, it would end up making it way worse....LMAO


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