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Wwii Gunto, Original With Mei Or Copy ?


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#1 francantolin

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 10:42 AM

Hello everybody,

I'm a new member, live in Switzerland and like Japanese swords ( and indo persian )

I post some pictures of a Japanese gunto,
it seems a real one but not sure because there is a lot of ''good'' replicas...

The seller sold it for not much money:
1. he was not sure 100% if real...
2. The blade is not really sharp, seems unforged ( no visible hamon ) and with little rust.

3. the samegawa seems made of plastic ( put on wood  ) ( I read it exist in real Japanese gunto )

All pieces ( tsuba...) have the same stamps: 20 ,
the habaki is not marked ( good ! )


Maybe anybody can read and translate the kanjis on the tang ?

 

In another forum, for the signature,they told me about Kanenori Mei , for other members it's a just a copy ...

I think it is  a showa period semi ''industrial'' blade

 

there is another 2 signs on the scabbard ( cf pictures ).
( inside the scabbard ''classic'' wooden structure ).

Thank you, 
 

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Franco

#2 Gunome

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:53 AM

Hello,

 

Yes this is a real Japanese sword and not a copy.

The mei read Kanenori, on the other side, the date read showa 18th year, 8th month (1944).

I also head about plastic same and that it has been used late in the war, so if your blade is from 1944, that could match.

However I am far to be a specialist of Gunto, so do not hesitate to post in the dedicated Board section.


Sebastien V.

#3 Geraint

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:54 AM

Hi Franco.

 

Please add your name to your posts, it is one of the few rules here.  Have a look at this thread, http://www.militaria...on-or-thoughts/  scroll down to about the 7th post and look at the middle of the three oshigata.

 

This is a genuine sword, not a reproduction, it is a gunto and I am sure there will be a hamon but the condition might make it hard to spot.

 

The kanji on the other side of the nakago from the signature are the date, should be easy to get to if you have a look at the Research tab at the top of the page. (Too late, Sebastian gave you the date.)

 

Enjoy.

 

(OK, rushing again, have added the link now)

 

All the best.


Geraint

#4 cisco-san

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 02:20 PM

Hello,

 

I guess your blade was made by one of these two smith:

 

KANENORI (兼則), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Nōshū Seki-jū Kanenori kore o saku” (濃州関住兼則作之), “Kanenori” (兼則), real name Kojima Tarō (小島太郎), born in May 1907, rikugun-jumei-tōshō, younger brother of Kanemichi (兼道), he studied under his brother and under his brother’s master Watanabe Kanenaga (渡辺兼永), he lived in the Kani district (可児郡) of Gifu Prefecture, he was trained at Kaneyoshi´s (兼吉) Tōken Tanren Jo (刀剣鍛錬所), jōko no jōi (Akihide), First Seat at the 6th Shinsaku Nihontō Denrankai (新作日本刀展覧会, 1941)

 

KANENORI (兼則), Shōwa (昭和, 1926-1989), Gifu – “Kanenori” (兼則), real name Kitakawa Katsuichi (北川勝一), born August 21st 1908, he worked as a guntō smith


Klaus Schicker

#5 francantolin

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 05:53 PM

Hello, pfiouuu !

Good news !!  :thumbsup:

 

Thank you all for precious informations about mei signature, kanjis  ,and same !!

I'll post other ( better ) pictures of the blade.

 

Thanks a lot !!

 

Franco


Franco

#6 francantolin

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:08 AM

Hello,

I don't want to sell it but what do you think is the current/correct price for this sword:

 

(Complet scabbard and hilt, tang with signature, matching serial numbers on pieces 

 but no gendai blade, no visible hamon and some rust ..... )

 

Best wishes

 

Franco


Franco

#7 Geraint

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 11:32 AM

Dear Franco.

 

It is always hard to value a sword from images but a search of the web should give you an idea.  Factor in the idea that full retail value is probably not what you would get if you sold.

 

Value also varies between countries, in the UK at the moment a decent shingunto tends to be around £800 to £1000, I suspect American collectors will fins that rather high.

 

So did you get a  bargain?

 

All the best.


Geraint

#8 PNSSHOGUN

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:23 PM

For US market I would say under $1000.


John


#9 francantolin

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:39 PM

I guess I was lucky:

I paid it less: 450 $, but I was not sure if it was real, the seller told me he thought but maybe not   and I'm no specialist :o  

It could be a fake paid really toooo much :bang: !!...

 

The blade too has too many spots and rust

cf pictures in my other post in translation assistance: WWii Gunto special thanks...

I think the last owner cleaned it with abrasive ''european'' products who damaged the blade,

I'll try to gently ''clean'' it with uchiko powder...

 

Franco


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Franco

#10 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:09 PM

Franco,

Just a minor adjustment on that date - it's 1943, not'44, easy mistake to make.

The little stamp at the top of the nakago is the "Na" of the Nagoya arsenal. Rather unique, as I've only seen 1 other blade from Nagoya made for army officers. They made lots of NCO gunto, though.

I have a Type 3 (or Type 44 as some call it) Officer gunto with the plastic same' and seen a few others. Not common, but not rare.

Nice Type 98!

#11 francantolin

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:43 PM

Hello,

 

Thank you for precision about the year !

Yes I was surprised and sceptical when I first saw the ''plastic'' same... 


Franco




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