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#1 Prewar70

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:26 PM

I'm trying to learn, so offering up my thoughts and would like to hear yours.  To me this is an attractive package.  Beautiful blade, TH papers, koshirae is elegant and functional and also papered, famous school, sayagaki, polish, etc.  The starting price doesn't seem out of line based on other sold examples I've dug up.  It's suriage and wakizashi length, so maybe the only negatives???  I'm not a bidder, but seems like a better than average offering on fleaBay.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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#2 Geraint

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 09:58 PM

James.

 

I think you are right but I expect it will make rather more than the starting price.  Interesting blade, cracking koshirae and half a library as well, what's not to like?

 

All the best


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#3 seattle1

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:42 AM

Hello:

 Interesting package for sure, but from what I can see on the sayagaki and NBTHK paper it is refereed to as a naginata-naoshi, not a nagamaki-naoshi. I don't think that has much material impact on value and the distinctions can be rather slippery anyway. 

 Arnold F.



#4 Jean

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 10:54 AM

In fact Arnold, AFAIK, NBTHK ignores the term nagamaki in its papers, it is always Naginata :)
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Jean L.
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#5 seattle1

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:08 PM

Hello:

 Well Jean that might " in fact" be today's convention, I don't know, but I am now looking at the Juyo paper I have for a Nanbokucho nagamaki-naoshi, which clearly calls it just that, the paper being for Showa 46. It is that elastic standard that led me to add "slippery" in the above.

 Arnold F.



#6 Marius

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:10 PM

Nagaye + maki. Wrapped nagaye. I think that's where the term nagamaki comes from. A type of koshirae for naginata. OTOH, I might be just inventing something :freak:
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#7 seattle1

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 01:15 AM

Hello:

 Yes Marius you might well be right. Sometimes in the literature they seem to stress that and images sometimes show what looks like a standard sword blade with a long (!) tsuka.  Again those with naginata-hi don't cross over in designation as best I can remember. Again I have seen blades called naginata that don't have the characteristic hi, and I have a Nanbokucho Naoe Shizu with standard hi, not the naginata-hi we think of, it being TH with Tanobe sensei sayagaki. I guess "the rule" is no binding rule.

 Arnold F.



#8 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:29 AM

Hello,

 

Repeating, where the NBTHK is concerned, nagamaki fall under the category of naginata. Nagamaki is a designation determined by how the blade had been mounted. Unless the history of a particular blade is known to the NBTHK, they will paper a blade as a naginata, naginata-naoshi/? . 


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#9 seattle1

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 02:51 PM

Hello Franco:

 Is there some written guideline that expresses that NBTHK position if in fact that is their convention?

 Arnold F.



#10 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 09:56 PM

Hello Arnold,

 

This question came up in 2009 when speaking to Shigekazu 'Jimmy' Hayashi about my sword, as the NBTHK papered it as a naginata-naoshi katana, not a nagamaki. Jimmy's reply was essentially as I've written here that for the NBTHK nagamaki fall under the heading of naginata, and without knowing the specific history the NBTHK is going to designate it as a naginata.

 

Following that discussion I began to dig further and found in a published article, which I now have to find again, that the mounts determine whether a piece is a nagamaki, and unless the history is known the NBTHK will use the designation of 'naginata' . 

 

 

 

http://japantrip.tri...n/osafune2.html,  

 

Notice that under the 2nd image the description reads;

 "This sword was described as "Naginata naoshi katana" in the exhibition guide." 

 

Notice that under the bottom image the description reads; 

''Both the swords above were described as "Nagamaki naoshi katana" in the exhibition guide.''  

Clearly one sword has a naginata hi and the other does not.


Edited by nagamaki - Franco, 12 March 2017 - 10:34 PM.

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Franco




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