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Who Wants To Win A Nihonto?


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Poll: Kantei Competition (34 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you participate in the below-mentioned competition?

  1. Yes I would have a go. (30 votes [88.24%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 88.24%

  2. No thanks, I politely decline (1 votes [2.94%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.94%

  3. No thanks, but I will contribute anyways (3 votes [8.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.82%

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#31 Rayhan

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 06:27 AM

@Brandon, Thank you Brandon for the suggestions and all opinions are always welcome and taken into consideration. At this time the main objective is to increase everyone's research and interest in the sword. It is a big prize to raffle away but I do understand where you are coming from. No one need be shy about submitting their Kantei as we will keep that private and the team organizing this is working on that for everyone, only the winning Kantei submissions and examples will be made public. Another aspect is the lead time, everyone gets (need it or not) 3 months to submit.

 

We have asked people to list their sources of information so we can weigh that too be it online or books where there is a will there is a way and with 3 months to spare there is definitely a library or book store close by too. For those who want success badly enough, there are no excuses, only solutions.

 

Again, new to register doesn't mean new to swords (for me at least), but through this challenge those truly new to the art will realize they are better than they think at recognizing swords.

 

Give it a go and I ask the truly new collectors to have faith in the NMB, as fellow collectors that your efforts will not go unrecognized

 

Rayhan Perera 



#32 Kronos

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:06 AM

Brandon I have to disagree, if it were an in-hand kantei then yes experience would comfortably win, however with 3 months and minimal resources it's a great levelling of the playing field. In that time with just the internet and maybe one or two cheapish books anyone can get very close to the answer (except for maybe one or two obscure smiths) if they put the effort in. Take for example an Aoe Sadatsugu, you may not get the smith (I know I wouldn't without a lot of luck) but I'm confident in 3 months if someone put the effort in they'd get to Aoe. If you don't challenge yourself you don't improve and the fantastic prize provides a significant incentive even for those already greatly incentivized to learn.

 

Just my 2 cents....


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#33 paulb

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 10:44 AM

I agree with James and Rayhan

The object and main benefits of any kantei are to increase understanding, to study and learn. It is one of the most effective ways to increase knowledge. speaking from experience I started (reluctantly) doing kantie about 10 years ago and can say with absolute certainty I have learned more in those 10 years than I did in the preceeding 25.

There is no reason not to have  go, no one will see your results, no one (other than the panel) will judge you, comment or criticise. you are testing yourself and learning a lot along the way. In this case there is a substantial incentive as well.

BTW, I am not entering the competition (although happy to do the kantei and donate to the board ) so Brandon that's one "old timer" you don't need to worry about :-)



#34 reeder

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 05:15 PM

It was just a thought that I believed would increase both participation and raised funds for the board.

Kronos & Paul, read my suggestion again. To qualify for the raffle drawing one would still have to have made the attempt at kantei and do the research in the required time therefore meeting the objective of increasing knowledge. By making the it a requirement to do the kantei and research to qualify, but the results of the grand prize aren't subjectively decided by a panel but rather a random drawing it actually increases the incentive to participate and interest as well as one learns how to do the research for the newer folks. I think it's silly to think a 3 month time frame levels the playing field when the starting points may be vastly different based directly on experience. Those with the best submissions would still be selected for the other prizes based on the panel review, which are also generous prizes.

I'm going to participate either way, I just thought by doing the drawing for the grand prize (sword) with capping "raffle tickets" at 5 or 10 with the required research to qualify you would see participation and raised funds rise while still meeting the objective of increasing knowledge of the participants. Again, it's not my contribution and can be run as the contributors want. I did not mean any of my posts to come across as complaining or being critical about the rules, only as suggestions I thought would maximize the sought objectives: increasing knowledge through research, increasing $ to NMB, and increasing interest in swords. Everyone is most welcome to disagree and have other ideas on how to meet the objectives.
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#35 Henry Wilson

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 02:34 AM

I have been a member here for about 15 years and let me say that I am delighted to see that the board has evolved in so many ways. The quality of information and the items that are offered for sharing has increased considerably. A little known fact is that when Rich T was handing over the board to another owner, he asked me at the time. While I was flattered I knew that I would not have the required skills to do it justice. I am very pleased that Brian and the mods have been able to raise the NMB to the stage were quality items are up for offer in the spirit of maintaining the board and promoting constructive involvement in nihonto appreciation. Gentlemen, I take my hat off to you all.

The prizes of a sword, a tsuba and books are very high stake. Kantei for a textbook example of a sword will not be too hard to do in 3 months, especially with the enthusiasts on the board and participatants are probably going to put in a lot of effort. There could be a lot of competition with steely eyes on the 1st and 2nd prize and as a result when the dust settles, there could be feeling of unfairness and an ultimate feeling of what was the point. Saying that I would like to make a few suggestions on this new idea in the effort to make it as positive and rewarding as possible for all involved in the hope that it be regarded as something worth repeating.

Suggestion one. Why not pool the community to create something that is nice and worth having for all participants who get a correct answer. Something that could appear at sword shows somewhere down the line in the distant future. For example a nicely produced oshigsta of the kantei sword, or approach one of the metal workers and ask them to make small commemorative pins, or something like that.

Suggestion two. Seeing that this is quite high stakes, judge credibility could be a concern. Therefore insist that all answers are anonymous (to prevent the suspicion of favouritism), fix the word count of the kantei response to say 500 +/- 10% (to encourage clarity and make it easier to cast a judgement) and submitted on PDF (to prevent accusations of that is not what I wrote).

Suggestion three, make a clear assessment chain. For example, reduce the judge panel to three where the first screens right or wrong answers and makes sure that the correct answers are anonymous and in the word count. Judge two marks the kantei and makes comments. I.e. "Your point on sugata is interesting, however for such and such work, more funabari should be present". Judge three second marks. Finally all comments are returned to the participant.

To me, the above will make the whole experience a more worthwhile endeavour that will ultimately fulfill the purpose of the understanding and learning and could make everyone a winner one way or another.
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#36 Rayhan

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 04:12 AM

I believe a lot of work is going on in the background to prepare for this. The panel is sifting through the best possible Kantei options, looking for swords that have been authenticated but not over published, logistics of keeping submissions private and then releasing them as need be, for example the note on anonymous postings is a good point and one we have been tinkering with. 

 

With regards to fairness, the point is for the younger, newer collectors to see how a good Kantei is done and presented, but i am sure the new collectors will surprise everyone with what they have at their disposal for Kantei and presentation of the material. The objective is in the learning, the prizes are a constellation for effort. I've sacrificed a bit for this in good faith of the people here, I only wish they had the same intention in effort.

 

Comments will be sent to participants for sure, that is part of the learning experience.

 

Either way we are waiting for far more committed individuals to sign up as we are not really even close to the 50% mark for this. 



#37 Jussi Ekholm

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:17 PM

I think we are stressing too much as I believe the main point should be having a fun experience. I know I am not gunning for the win, just doing my best and enjoying the amazing competition. I guess you don't usually be a winner with an attitude like that but I think fun is much more important than winning.

 

In my opinion getting some feedback on submitted guesses would be more than enough for participation prize.

 

Written description and images will be also very helpful and the task might not be as impossible as many new collectors might think. Having some general books will be helpful but much can be achieved by using only free online information too. I agree that playing field will never be "equal" but then again it really shouldn't/couldn't be. The description can be easy or it can be difficult to nail down. But the fun part is trying to nail it down and if you are wrong then looking at the answer and realizing what you were missing and where you went to wrong tracks.


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Jussi Ekholm


#38 Stephen

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 12:15 AM

Im just supporting the NMB, after the two recent photo kantei, i doubt ill get much more than den.


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#39 Kronos

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 12:47 AM

Same for me Stephen, although we're not looking likely to get the required number of signups which is a little disappointing given the number of active users and those who have signed up for group buys etc in the past.


James C.

#40 Brian

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:22 AM

I have added a poll on the first post, so those participating, please would you add your vote to the poll.
Note that your votes will be visible, for transparency. Couldn't choose one options of "Yes I will" so I had to add a no vote too. And then thought that unfair to those who might want to contribute but not submit answers, so added the 3rd option.
Let's take a little time and see what the poll shows.
As mentioned, it is all for fun and the entry fee is a fraction of what we spend on supplies/goods. Rayhan initiated this on his own, and has sponsored the prizes...so major decisions on this are up to him out of fairness, and I thank him for both his time and commitment.


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#41 Alex A

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:51 PM

Wow, very generous,

Might I suggest a couple things to increase participation and raised contributions. Why not make the sword won by raffle? To be considered you must still submit the required research by the deadline with a genuine attempt. That way it provides incentives to more than the usual suspects to do some independent research, have a go at putting something together, and sharing findings. Unless this is a prize for the main researchers then that makes sense. Those of us newer collectors have no chance against 30 year veterans with massive reference collections and far more blades studied in hand. Give 5 or 10 buy-ins at $30 each, per participant.

Have the other prizes based on the content of the research judged by the panel.

I feel this would raise more funds for NMB through more donations with more of a chance to win the sword, push more folks to actually do the research while maintaining the research requirement after making the donations, and level the playing field.

Just a thought that can be ignored of course. Lol.

 

What Brandon said, think it would get a lot more folk interested.


Alex.

#42 Brian

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:15 PM

..... Im going to need to get my paypal sorted 1st so hopefully enough time. Cheers.

Greg

 

As can be seen in the donation tab at the top right of the forum, credit card is accepted directly with pleasure, not through PP :glee:
 


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#43 Gabriel L

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 09:47 PM

Wow. That's extremely generous. I will participate and hope I do not embarrass myself too greatly with my bids.



#44 Jean

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:51 AM

Guys,

Kantei is fun, nihonto is just a hobby, no need to worry about your kantei bid, you will not be judged and sentenced :)
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#45 Brian

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:09 AM

 

:laughing:


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#46 Klop

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:55 PM

Great initiative :clap:

 

I'm in too, if only for the good cause.

 

Best regards,
Eric K.


Best regards,

 

Eric K.


#47 Kronos

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 06:46 PM

26 in so far by my count so almost half way there.


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#48 Brian

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:35 PM

Keep voting folks. Lack of feedback doesn't bode well for what is an incredibly generous gesture. This would be a real shame to waste.


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#49 Stephen

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:58 PM

 

 

26 in so far by my count

 

UH only 17 by my count and the poll, im not very optimistic. 


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#50 e_v

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 03:53 PM

Re-voted after the database mayhem :)
Enrico Viola

#51 J Reid

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:40 AM

I also re-voted!
Josh Reid

#52 Rayhan

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 04:20 AM

Hi all

 

Quick update here.

 

After failing to get enough traction to warrant the Katana I am pulling the sword and replacing it with a Hozon Papered Tsuba. So in effect we have 1st and 2nd prize being Tsuba and books to boot for the rest. 

 

Best Regards

 

Rayhan



#53 Gabriel L

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 05:11 AM

Still very generous Rayhan. Come on people, what do you have to lose? No better way to learn than by doing…



#54 Jesper

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 07:24 AM

I am in. Very generous, indeed.

 

Jesper



#55 Brian

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Posted 09 March 2017 - 09:24 AM

Pity people aren't more adventurous..or is that trusting in their own abilities?
This should be seen as a fun exercise with no pressure, and at the same time assisting the forum with the yearly bills. Can't expect Ray to sponsor something of such huge value if there is a low uptake. The current offer is still exceptionally generous. Papered tsuba? More than many own.....and all for a little time doing what you should be doing in this hobby anyways...studying Nihonto.
I look forward to the exercise myself, and again thank Ray for his huge generosity, and to this who will be assisting with this.


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#56 Valric

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:52 AM

I'm in. This is a great initiative!

Chris H. 


#57 Jussi Ekholm

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 02:21 PM

I hope more members will jump in on this. Rayhan is providing a very generous chance for everyone. Sometimes it seems it is very hard to "activate" people. Rayhan came up with this awesome idea and I cannot understand how this kantei game is not filling up with participants?


Jussi Ekholm


#58 Brian

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 04:07 PM

Going to have to get cracking on this...we need to get the swords picked and the process going. Hard to find decent swords with decent pics that are not easily found in publications.


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#59 Vermithrax16

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 01:53 AM

Great idea and wonderful way to get people interested but I have about zero ability to read the kantei. For all the great help and information I get here on this forum I would be glad to donate 2X entry fee amount. I cannot believe the prizes being put up, beyond generous.


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#60 Greg F

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 02:51 AM

Sorry for taking so long but donation now made.

Greg




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