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Legitimate Gunto?


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#1 Hastur

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 02:09 AM

Hello, I recently purchased this gunto and I wanted to ask everyone before it ships if it is authentic, the dealer seems pretty honest but it doesn't hurt to make sure.

 

Thanks for your help!

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Brad G.

#2 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 02:48 AM

Brad,

I assume these are the pics the seller provided? Better pics would help, obviously.

Personally, I hate trying to evaluate this kind - it's either a really good reproduction, or a fair to poor legit gunto.

Positives - The metal is NOT the Damascus steel that is common in fakes; the styling of the handle fittings are proper;
Iffy's - While I've seen black same' on army gunto, this looks imitation (pending better photos); the fittings are poorly made; the tang is muey-ugly! I've seen lots worse, but if this was Japanese made, the tang was made by a moderately unskilled worker!

If you got it at a good price, so be it; but I hope you didn't pay "a lot." (subjective terms admittedly!)

#3 Mark

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:23 AM

late war machine made, poor quality but genuine WWII sword


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#4 Hastur

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:48 AM

I asked for further pictures, the price was good for NCO variety (at least for us poor Canadians without access to gunshows) ended at 455 USD and I thought it would make a great addition to my type 32's. 


Brad G.

#5 Hastur

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:49 AM

I did think it was a bit odd that an nco looking blade had the regular fittings for an officer's gunto. do you think the fittings are fake or just late war poor quality?


Brad G.

#6 Mark

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:03 AM

it is not a NCO blade.  price seems fair enough based on pictures


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#7 Hastur

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 05:00 AM

Interesting, I always assumed that blades produced with no Hamon would be relegated to NCO's and lower ranks. so were swords like this made for higher ranks as well especially near the end?


Brad G.

#8 Bruce Pennington

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 06:23 AM

Brad,

There were rare NCO gunto without the fuller groove (bo-hi), but rare. Likewise, there were rare officer gunto WITH fuller grooves. The hamon on war gunto was usuallly straight, not wavy, and late in the war, the details were often hard to see. The blade was still tempered though.

You got a decent price for an officer gunto with leather saya cover.

I'm still bothered by the high-shine brass looking hand-guard (tsuba). It looks newly made with fine detail, styled in the early-years pierced tsuba. But if it were late-war, then it very well could have been "newly" made, before the war ended.

Nice war piece! Of course, you're going to have to treat us to a couple of pics of your 32's!

#9 IJASWORDS

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 06:37 AM

Marks two posts are on target. Must admit I got a few of these in the early days. I put the cost down to the UNIVERSITY OF LIFE. I must say that now, I let three like that go by and spend the money on one decent example. Neil.
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Neil

#10 Hastur

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 07:24 AM

Thanks for the replies, I'm glad it looks authentic I'll be glad to take a group shot once it arrives with the type 32's. Really nice swords those cavalry sabers and pretty cheap for sabers in general. I'm trying to work my way up to an early war officers sword but for now this will do until my student days are over. its interesting that there seems to be a leather piece replacing one of the seppas. is this a normal period replacement or a post war addition?


Brad G.

#11 Shamsy

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:06 AM

Can be either. Leather seppa are used regularly by collector's to prevent the rattle that comes with drying wood of the tsuka shrinking. Some of these leather seppa are also period and perfectly legitimate. Some incorporate retention mechanisms such as buttons, though a lot of those are broken. Leather tends to shrink and harden to remember. Having said that I have a Type 32 Ko in the first 1500 produced with the leather washer intact, not to mention plenty of examples where leather has been well preserved.

The best judge is feel and smell. Does it smell old and oily? Like it's had grime and use for a long time. Does it look like a 60 year old bit of leather? Is it smooth or kind of rough and weathered?
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Steve
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#12 Hastur

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:05 AM

The leather in question is on the 9th picture, I too have the leather washers intact on my type 32's and a leather finger grip on the cavalry model. I once saw a brass seppa on a type 32 once though and thought that must be a rarity but much easier to preserve.


Brad G.

#13 Shamsy

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:18 AM

I cannot smell or touch the leather seppa, so you're best to determine once you get the sword in hand.

The brass seppa on 32 are thought to be from arsenal refurbished blades that usually were unissued before the war ended. Would be nice to have one as an example. 32s can be a collection in and of themselves. A good place to start when you're on a budget. Around 10 different ones I think, then add any oddities that come along.
Steve
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#14 Windy

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:36 AM

I looked at a nice 32 Ko in an auction at the weekend. It went for £265. Was looking to get it, but at this money I decided to save towards a more traditional piece.
Cheers, Matt

#15 IJASWORDS

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:58 AM

Hastur. The leather seppa you mention, is a broken leather scabbard retaining tab. Note the hole in your TSUBA, the attaching piece passes through this. That's why there is a hole. The leather seppa fits between the TZUKA and TSUBA. You actually have the snap piece on your SAYA. See photo of some examples.

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Neil

#16 Dave R

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:05 AM

 Personal opinion,... all the parts are genuine but it is an assemblage of parts from a spares box. When it was assembled is of course another matter! I also think the blade has been "polished" post war and the Ito redone. The price as quoted is about right for one of these, being what you would normally pay for the parts without labour.


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#17 Hastur

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 02:27 AM

Yes the ito and tsuba seem quite pristine compared to the seppa for example. thank you for the clarification on the leather seppa IJA! I'll make sure to post better pictures once I receive the item. I can only hope it was cobbled together during the war instead of a post war job.


Brad G.

#18 David Flynn

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 04:16 AM

My vote would be post war.


David




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