Will There Be Another Shinsa For Australia

[lonely panet]

Morning gentlemen

 

well iv heard a lot of collectors say and suggest that Australia needs another Shinsa, but with the last one running on the lean side with submissions, would there be anyone in the know if it is ever going to happen?.

 

regards H

[lonely panet]

HHHHHMMMMMM

[BIG]

Good question so, do we have enough items fot a long shinsa weekend in Canberra, Adelaide, London, Berlin or Paris ?

Secondly is NBTHK willing to have that shinsa outside Japan. Asking the NTHK or NPO Mr. Bowen once said, yes he will do so

in Europe some day...

Who is willing to organize and take care?

Who will ship his swords and drive or fly anxious or in good hope...

 

Questions, questions, questions concerning the mind of the ambitious collector today...

 

Best Regards

[seattle1]

Hello:

 There is to be a shinsa in San Francisco this August, it being by the "original faction" of the NTHK under Yoshikawa sensei, and will cover both blades and tosogu. Tom Helm is the source of that information.

 Arnold F.

[PNSSHOGUN]

I sincerely wish there was another, the trick will be to advertise it correctly for collectors in the region so we can have as many submissions as possible.

[cuttingedge59]

Totally agree , if advertised  widely including here in Nz it is possible there might be enough submissions to be viable.

Chris NZ

[Toryu2020]

This of course is the crux of the matter,

We would love to visit Australia again but is there enough pent up need to support it.

-t

[David Flynn]

No one is willing (including mmyself) to put ones hand in ones pocket.  The initial outlay is the killer.

[FletchSan]

I wonder how many swords they'd need submitted to warrant a visit. Maybe we should do a poll of AUS / NZ Collectors?

I'd have 3 I'd like to submit for Shinsa...

 

Ben

[Brian]

I'd ask the same for a South African shinsa, since we have never had one. How many submissions would make it viable?

[David Flynn]

I believe it's 200.  I worked at both the Sydney Shinsa. However, that only covers the costs of the NTHK.  one then has to pay for the venue advertising etc.  Even if enough tables are paid for and the gate purse taken into consideration, the outlay is expensive.  Plus, who makes up the money if the table and gate don't realise the cost?

[lonely panet]

is there a reliable pre-commitment list, to see if its a finacially feasible.

 

I would love to go, maybe submit one item, but I have a friend that could submit 20 or so blades

[David Flynn]

I don't believe the number of items would be the problem.  As I mentioned before, it's the initial outlay for the venue, security etc. that is the problem.

[lonely panet]

ahhh, i missed that point.

 

well you could always have it in SA, were cheap and not much occuring here. hhahahahhaha

[David Flynn]

You can always put your hand up, Hamish.

[lonely panet]

whats the price range??

 

i would think maybe 10 to 15 k??

 

and sorry im in no position at the moment 

[Brian]

Venue here could probably be donated through various sources. Security not a problem....nor are we bothered with all the regulations that some overseas are.
Getting the required 200 submissions might be a problem, SA is small with only a small number of collectors. I guess accommodation and transport for the team would need to be covered. What is the amount per sword submission on USD?

[David Flynn]

$150 for sub another $150 for a pass, I believe.   When the last shinsa occurred in Sydney, they were the prices, except that was the cost in Aussie dollars.

[lonely panet]

sorry i meant as a total,

 

i assume that if only 170 items are submitted, some one has to front up the other $4500 to brake evan

 

are we paying there airfares and accomidation, or is that factored into the submission frees as a total over 200 submissions??

[Ken-Hawaii]

I talked with Chris Bowen about a Hawaii NBTHK shinsa back in 2012, & here's what he said:

 

Hello Ken-

Thanks for your interest.

In the past, the NTHK has wanted a guarantee of at least 300 items before they will commit to coming. We set the cost of the shinsa to pay for their usual shinsa fee, plus all the expenses involved in bringing them, which includes air fare, hotel, etc. I received a percentage as well for my time and expenses in setting up the event (venue, advertising, security, etc.), my translating and assisting them while in country (picking them up at the airport, taking them shopping,etc.).

I have been approached before by people in Australia and the UK. The stumbling block has always been the guarantee. We have had no trouble getting 300 items at our stateside shinsa in the past, then again, they have always been 6-7 years apart...

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Take care,
Chris

 

and one follow-up:

 

 

The fee would be about $300 per item. This would cover their fee and cover my time and expenses. We charged $350 I think for items that passed at the last shinsa, and the extra $50 per item paid for their airfare, hotel, etc. 

 

I would be very surprised if you could manage to get the NBTHK to come to the US for a shinsa. People have been proposing that to no avail for a loooong time.....

 

A bit of market research to sound out interest would be a great idea....Let me know how things go and if you have any further questions.

 

Take care,

Chris Bowen

 

 

Not sure how much has changed since 2012, but at least here are some hard numbers.

 

Ken

 

[FletchSan]

I would have thought getting 300 items from Australian collectors would be very easy given the number of serious collectors we have and venue wise there are a ton of good locations, community halls etc that would be low cost - it wouldn't have to be CBD. I guess the main factor is someone actually taking on the responsibility of organising it. Perhaps a kickstarter would be a decent approach - once the funds are raised then it goes ahead if not it doesn't.

[David Flynn]

Adrian Schlemmer is the gentleman who orginised both Sydney Shinsa.  We were fortunate to have the NTHK ( Yoshikawa Group), at both Shinsa.  I believe Adrian was out of pocket for both Shinsa.  However, all who attended are glad of his generosity.  Anyone in Oz who is thinking of orginising a shinsa, would be advised to contact Adrian and pick his brain. 

 Ben (FletchSan)  With the tyranny of distance of our fair land, contacting and or notifying collectors is a monumental task in itself.  As I was a volunteer at both Shinsa, I am aware of the difficulties involved.  Also, 300 items is difficult.  Many collectors in Oz, have their swords polished in Japan.  Along with this, comes Shinsa.

[FletchSan]

Thanks David. Good points and I'm sure it would be a monumental task to organise. I've never sent a sword to Japan for Shinsa and have heard that it's getting a little difficult to do so these days.

Hopefully Adrian or another major collector is able to organise one here again in the future without being out of pocket.

[David Flynn]

It's not difficult (except for sending the sword) to have a sword go through Shinsa in Japan.  One just needs to use a reputable agent, like Paul Martin.

[lonely panet]

I think there are real future benifits for "nihonto collecting" within Australia, by holding Shinsa's and simular events regularly.

 

its all too easy to travel to Japan and spend all our money over there, or send our swords there for restoration or papering.

 

why not keep the money with in our economy, by supporting Australian dealers, trades people. 

 

Dosent the Shinsa Event raise much needed attention to what is a shrinking hobby?  it helps raise the profile of nihonto, and helps introduce beginners to the real costs of the hobby/addiction.

also keeps people togeather, and for those like me who cant afford to buy often, gives me a chance to look at quality items in real life, not on the computer.

 

 

YES, this means someone has to do the Event management plan, set up the venue, host the gentlemen from Japan and so on.

 

the benefits are more then getting just getting cool stuff papered.   

[PNSSHOGUN]

Has there been any more movement or talk of another Australian Shinsa? 

[shakudo]

A Shinsa for Australia is a must. When and where I think is dictated by the enthusiasm of the locals. I was fortunate to go to both Sydney token Kai as a participant. If it wasn't for Adrian Schlemmer and his band of volunteers neither show would have happened.

For another one to occur we'll need volunteers and reading between the lines there seems enthusiasm but it's from individuals Australia wide.

My question is this- Are there any groups of Nihonto collectors getting together regularly that feel they could be involved in a shinsa in say 2019/2020?

Regards Michael.

[David Flynn]

I believe Adrian lost money on both the Sydney Shinsa.  I believe, the NTHK was taken care of by the number of Submissions.  As for the actual show part, this is where the money goes.  Both Shinsa were not advertised.  I believe this is the main reason of the costs blowing out, advertising is a must.  Next, to have a show, tables and exhibitions need to be arranged.   This was a disappointment at both Shinsa, particularly the second. The exhibitions aren't so much of a problem as, finding vendors.