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#1 Quilty

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 05:53 AM

I recently acquired an Early Edo Period set of armor in Japan with matching Daisho.

 

I am attempting to display the armor.  I have a smallish new wooden stand that came with the armor as well as the two original wooden boxes that the armor was stored in, but I am having a difficult time getting the armor to "sit" on the box with any kind of stability.  In particular, I cannot get the breastplate to rest on the stand.  Any suggestions or guides that anyone could point me to would be very much appreciated.

 

Thank you.

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Christian

#2 uwe

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:38 AM

Hi Quilty (?),
usually it's not very tricky to put an armor on it's stand. Although, one has to consider some important points, to prevent any damage. Can you post pics of the accompanying stand?!
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#3 Guido Schiller

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 10:39 AM

What Uwe said, we need to see the stand. If it's one like in the attached pic, it shouldn't be a problem.

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#4 Quilty

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 05:33 AM

Here is the stand.

 

I am not certain that I assembled it correctly.

 

Thank you.

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#5 Guido Schiller

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 09:35 AM

Yes, it's assembled correctly. Those types are a little flimsy compared to the traditional ones, but should work. It can be somewhat tricky to balance the out by moving the shoulder straps that go on top of the wooden crossbar.


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#6 Malcolm

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:15 AM

Hi Christian.,

 

My immediate concern is the top of the stand itself where the flat angles of the boards will meet with the Helmet liner (Ukebari).

 

I would put some padding on those corners and edges to avoid the weight of the helmet tearing through the Ukebari.


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#7 uwe

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:32 AM

Hi Christian,
I can't actually recommend this stand for permanent display. There are several reasons. Your armor includes an sendai-do, which is quite heavy I assume. According to my experience, this type of stands tend to be a bit unstable, like Guido said. So fixing the parts properly, would be a task itself.
Sry, wife is calling ;-) ...... I'll come back to you this evening.
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Uwe Sacklowski

#8 Viper6924

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 10:32 AM

I got exactly the same looking stand delivered with an armour from Japan. Complete crap to be honest. It was unstable with sharp corners. Went out a bought the traditional stand shown in the other picture. The crappy one was later used for target practise. Worked like a charm :)

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#9 IanB

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 12:17 PM

Christian, As Uwe said, Sendai dou are heavy and even the type of stand shown by Guido throws a lot of weight onto the shoulder fastenings. It pays to add a couple of cross bars to the uprights of the stand so the bottom edge of the dou can sit on them and take all the weight off the cords. I also add a pair of padded sleeves to the ends of the shoulder-bar. These fill out the sleeves and the drag of fabric on fabric takes weight off the sleeve fastenings. Also make up a couple of padded cushions and put them under the haidate over the corners of the armour box. In short do all you can to reduce the weight on the fastenings  as I notice the lacing is a bit ripe so the various ties and cords will be as well.

Ian Bottomley


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#10 uwe

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 12:47 PM

Christian,
Ian explained almost all important points in terms of displaying an Japanese armor. However, what I like to add is a thing about the haidate (apron). On most haidate of some age, the "belt part" turns fragile. So only one sturdy point remains commonly. It's the cord loop in the middle between the two parts. You can use it, to support the fastening and taking weight from the "belt". As a possibility, you can drill a hole in the bottom plate of the stand and insert a wooden pin. Thus, you have a mounting point to put the loop over.
Last but not least, I want to echo Jan and Malcolm. Avoid sharp edges and corners!
Enjoy!
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Uwe Sacklowski

#11 Quilty

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 01:54 AM

Thank you so much for all the great information.

One issue that I have is that the shoulder pads of the armor appear to be difficult to secure to the chest plate, which is very heavy. The connections are old and not very strong. I think it will have to be supported from below.

Where can one purchase the sturdier stand pictured above?

Thank you!
Christian

#12 IanB

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 11:49 AM

Christian,  They are available on the internet, but I make my own. Try ebay - there is usually someone selling them.

Ian Bottomley



#13 kiku

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 10:29 AM

Here you can have one.

 

http://www.nihonto-c...tander-aus-holz

 

Best

 

Sebastian


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#14 DaveT

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 03:00 PM

Here you can have one.

 

http://www.nihonto-c...tander-aus-holz

 

Best

 

Sebastian

 

The shoulders are way too wide on that stand, also the bar should be rounded to support the watagami, this stand would damage an armour.


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#15 kiku

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 06:14 PM

I think that is not correct but it is possible to short them if necessary. It will not be damaged because usually you pad them if you display it.

Dave is selling the stands also and maybe he wants to denigrate mine. That is not so nice acting.
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#16 DaveT

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 02:44 PM

I think that is not correct but it is possible to short them if necessary. It will not be damaged because usually you pad them if you display it.

Dave is selling the stands also and maybe he wants to denigrate mine. That is not so nice acting.

 

Why did you write that?

For your information I'm not selling any armour stands. The reason is I sold out of them over a year ago. Please get your facts in order before going on the attack.

However I will say one thing about the stands I sold. 
1. They had a rounded upper section to support the Watagami.
2. The cross beam was short to allow the sode to be fitted without applying any pressure, which breaks the cords.

I took that extra step to ensure that the stands caused as little damage as possible.

I'm a very much a collector of armour with 30 suits, and I'll be honest with my opinion when others ask a clear question, that is our responsibility to the forum users, to tender information that helps others.

If you want to avoid criticism of your stands then please take this as constructive and amend your product.

 


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#17 IanB

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 07:39 PM

All, Armour was designed to fit on a human, not on a wooden stand so the latter should be shaped as near as possible to the human the armour was designed for. You can obtain the major dimensions such as the width of the shoulders by measuring from the outside edges of the shoulder straps and adding about 3" on each side. If there are kohire, they will give you the amount. For the height of the shoulder bar measure from the shoulder straps to the bottom of the dou and add about 6 - 8" to the base of the stand. This allows for the lower abdomen and the botton when seated. A big fault with most stands is that the head is positioned centrally above the body. Look at a real human from the side and you will see that the neck bends forward and the head is positioned more to the front. This means angling the helmet support forward. It is details like this that add to the realism of the armour when mounted. 

Ian Bottomley


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#18 estcrh

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 12:11 PM

I recently acquired an Early Edo Period set of armor in Japan with matching Daisho.
 
I am attempting to display the armor.  I have a smallish new wooden stand that came with the armor as well as the two original wooden boxes that the armor was stored in, but I am having a difficult time getting the armor to "sit" on the box with any kind of stability.  In particular, I cannot get the breastplate to rest on the stand.  Any suggestions or guides that anyone could point me to would be very much appreciated.
 
Thank you.

This armor should not be displayed as the lacing is disintegrating and displaying it will only make matters worse. If I can see so much damage with the small, low resolution image you provided it must be much worse up close. I hope Aoi pointed out this damage in their sales description.

 

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#19 Greg F

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 02:36 PM

Replacement lacing time i think.

Greg

#20 DaveT

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 03:45 PM

Replacement lacing time i think.

Greg

 

Did someone say the magic word? The only pre-stretched odoshi in the world!

http://yoroi.uk/prod...ory/odoshi-ito/


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#21 estcrh

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:37 PM

With all of the experienced people here it is interesting that not one person said that an armor in this state should NOT be displayed....humm, im just saying. Did anyone bother to look at the images provided????



#22 Shogun8

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 01:45 AM

Eric,

 

Sure, there are a number of detached or broken laces, but I've seen much worse. There's certainly no reason not to display the armour until such time that Christian decides to have the odoshi repaired or replaced. If it were my first armour (assuming that it's Christian's first armour), I'd be excited to display it too.

 

John


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#23 DaveT

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 06:35 AM

*Edited by admin*

There are a few damaged lines, but this can be overlooked, strands break if the odoshi is moved around or excesive weight is applied. However one can clearly observe that the armour is displayed on a stand at Aoi. I've displayed many armour in this condition, it will not simply explode I can assure you.

The echo Johns post, if this is Christians first armour then he will want to display it. Replacing the odoshi can always be an option later down the road. We have all contributed to his question in a positive manner.


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#24 estcrh

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:49 AM

Eric,

 

Sure, there are a number of detached or broken laces, but I've seen much worse. There's certainly no reason not to display the armour until such time that Christian decides to have the odoshi repaired or replaced. If it were my first armour (assuming that it's Christian's first armour), I'd be excited to display it too.

 

John

Actually John, without seeing more detailed images of this armor how do you know exactly what condition it is actually in? Would you personally attempt to display an armor in this condition?? 



#25 Shogun8

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 03:48 PM

Actually John, without seeing more detailed images of this armor how do you know exactly what condition it is actually in? Would you personally attempt to display an armor in this condition?? 

Eric,

 

So much about this fascinating hobby is about personal taste, opinion and approach. You're absolutely right that I can't tell everything from the photos supplied by Christian, but based on what I can see, I would have no qualms at all about displaying this armour. All the areas of damage you point out have to do with individual strands of odoshi, not swaths of it. Most of the odoshi is still intact and the urushi seems to be in very good condition.

 

Personally speaking, it's in good enough condition to display and like most collectors, having just acquired the armour (with the accompanying excitement about displaying it), I'd probably be reticent to immediately go out and spend the time and money to have it repaired/restored. This would mean being without it for several months at the very minimum; the risk of sending it wherever it's going (and then sending it back); and the attendant costs of the restoration. My feeling is display it as is and if the parts start falling off (doubtful), then deal with it at that time.

 

Someone else might have a completely different opinion - and I respect that.

 

John


John - Always learning.


#26 DaveT

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 04:43 PM

And to add, replacing simple sugake odoshi can be done at home, there is not always the need to send off the entire armour.
I've taken a lot of time to upload instructional guides on how to lace armour for this very reason. 


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#27 Brian

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 05:46 PM

Get personal here, get banned. That's as simple as it is..and that goes for all sides. If we are forced to delete further comments, we will be deleting members.
Ignore personal attacks, and leave it up to admin or mods to address, otherwise we will take the easiest route...the one that spares us the stress.
Thanks to those who have given polite opinions without personal attacks.


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#28 Anthony de Vos

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 05:52 PM

Hi!

When I have armors with or sometimes even without structural problems with odoshi, I use fishing nylon line as support. Difficult to spot and makes the job. So, this armor can definetly be displayed. Go ahead, enjoy your armor.

Anthony
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#29 DaveT

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 07:12 PM

Fishing line or catgut works well, you can sew it straight through the existing braid.


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#30 estcrh

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:54 AM

Eric,...................You're absolutely right that I can't tell everything from the photos supplied by Christian, but based on what I can see, I would have no qualms at all about displaying this armour. All the areas of damage you point out have to do with individual strands of odoshi, not swaths of it. Most of the odoshi is still intact...................
Someone else might have a completely different opinion - and I respect that. John

John, yes the owner can display this armor...I personally would not, I would pack it away nice and safe until I was able to fix the problem. As I stated, more images would be needed of the lacing and the cloth backing......I see parts hanging off and rows of lacing ready to go...it looks blown to me but as you say..."Someone else might have a completely different opinion".



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